Terry Pratchett - Twitter

[Baystard]

Terry Pratchett and Monstrous Regiment trending on twitter this morning, claims that GC community trying to posthumously recruit Sir Terry, and his daughter saying he would be appalled, etc.

As a Pratchett enthusiast I'm a bit lost. Some people are quoting about dwarves, but I thought in their culture it was unacceptable to be anything but male, and that Cherry was biologically female but repressed by culture into hiding it. I didn't interpret Pratchett as meaning that dwarves were all biologically male and that Cheery was trans. Have I missed something?

I always felt Vimes and Granny Weatherwax were the two characters closest to the author's voice. Esme was always sharply aware of people's ability to deceive themselves, and how important it was to acknowledge and defer to reality.

Yes I agree, Granny was a realist in a fantastical world. When trans activists go on about transwomen being more womanly and feminine than actual women, I always think of Granny Weatherwax...

“Things that try to look like things often do look more like things than things. Well-known fact,” said Granny. “But I don’t hold with encouraging it.”

― Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters

Even here on FWR, a hotbed of GCery, we get TRAs strolling up and telling flat out lies about what we think, even though what we think is right here in the threads and posts!

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

In re Neil Gaiman, I'm choosing to separate the author from the work. His life choices have been questionable for some time.

Yes. I agree.

Pratchett wrote such wonderful female characters. Esk, Tiffany, Granny, Nanny, Magrat and of course Susan. There was also Pepper in Good Omens.

I was disappointed that he seemed to buy into gendered narratives wit the Dwarves.

I also think his latter books, sadly, were somewhat muddly and driven by a social justice narrative that was not well thought through.

@Signalbox

I always felt Vimes and Granny Weatherwax were the two characters closest to the author's voice. Esme was always sharply aware of people's ability to deceive themselves, and how important it was to acknowledge and defer to reality.

Yes I agree, Granny was a realist in a fantastical world. When trans activists go on about transwomen being more womanly and feminine than actual women, I always think of Granny Weatherwax...

“Things that try to look like things often do look more like things than things. Well-known fact,” said Granny. “But I don’t hold with encouraging it.”

― Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters

Absolutely spot on.

Actually feel a bit emotional reading that quote. I love Terry Pratchett's writing and this pile of shit with TRAs will never stop me loving it.

Same with Gaiman, King etc.

There's nothing intellectually curious about obsessively clinging to rigid gender binary, even if you call it "sex-based" instead.

Oh yes,

GC feminists - 'wear what you want, like what you want but universal experiences and oppression based on our sex are what unites us'.
TRA's - 'you don't like frilly dresses and pink! You must have been born in the wrong body!'

GC women aren't the ones rigidly sticking to gender stereotypes.

@OvaHere - I agree. It’s very difficult to accurately guess people’s views on this subject in particular. Despite best attempts to suggest otherwise, it does not run along the broad lines of left and right as so many similar stances do. I imagine that if Margaret Atwood were no longer with it, The Handmaid’s Tale would be hailed as proof she understood the basis of women’s oppression is based on their biology. And yet...

@Waitwhat23

the TRA's co-opt it as the women wanting to be men

Yes, but I'm not sure they do. On that thread I saw a lot of posts by people whose position on inclusivity I would rather agree with. I love the idea of the Night Watch accepting everybody. I think they genuinely don't see that their averred principles do not actually support their opinions! They just ignore the logical problems. Maybe this phenomenon arises from getting your opinions from your peers rather than sitting down and thinking them through. Or am I being patronising?

Cheery Littlebottom is actually being massively culturally appropriative by dressing up in another culture’s gender presentation. Instead of sticking with the dwarf cultural norms, she adopts human ones (where female gender presentation traditionally mirrors female biological sex). Very bad and wrong of her.

In Equal Rites he was very clear that Esk could be a magician even though she wasn’t male.

I don’t know about the TV programme, but book Cheery isn’t trans - is simply a femal dwarf conforming to female dwarf norms. That she recognises and starts to use human female elements doesn’t change the fact that she’s female in the first place.

I don't think that its acceptable to put words into the mouths of dead people; I don't see why dead naming is outrageous but this is acceptable.

Terry Pratchett was a humane person who wrote humorous books. He had a light touch when it came to political satire, which is why his books are amusing.
I don't think he would have used trans issues in his books.

She's not the only one — in Unseen Academicals there's effectively Avon for trolls.

There's definitely something about a large proportion of dwarf courtship is trying to discreetly find out what's under the chainmail, so they definitely have two sexes, just one "look".

I read it about people adapting into another culture to be honest — picking the bits they like that enhance their life and sticking with their own cultural heritage for others. (Poor example, but I have a friend who has lived in Turkey for a long time — she is still very British in many ways, but really loves the communal Turkish baths which lots of expats don't go near apparently. Or another friend who moved with his wife to Poland and is now an enthusiastic Polish country dancer.)

@Waitwhat23

There's nothing intellectually curious about obsessively clinging to rigid gender binary, even if you call it "sex-based" instead.

Oh yes,

GC feminists - 'wear what you want, like what you want but universal experiences and oppression based on our sex are what unites us'.
TRA's - 'you don't like frilly dresses and pink! You must have been born in the wrong body!'

GC women aren't the ones rigidly sticking to gender stereotypes.

Is deriding trans women as "men in dresses" (which is definitely used as a pejorative) and shaming them for expressing any joy in feminine expression how you express your "support" for people "wearing whatever they want"?

And you're just making up strawmen, trans people don't say you "must've been wrong in the wrong body" if you don't like dresses. Trans people understand, far better than you, that men and women, both trans and non-trans, can both dress, express, and identify however they want.

It's just just you trying to restrict how people identify. Which you know you can only justify with a bunch of dishonest strawmen like this one.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

In re Neil Gaiman, I'm choosing to separate the author from the work. His life choices have been questionable for some time.

I don’t know for a fact, but I suspect Gaiman’s stance is based on not wanting any shit for for Thessaly telling Wanda she can’t go with the others as she’s not actually a woman.

Bunmei you can agree with people wearing what they want without agreeing it’s a cause for celebration.

Eg I’m cool with people wearing mom jeans and bootcut jeans without agreeing they’re a good thing.

Pratchett is dead. Anyone claiming that they categorically know what he would think of the current debacle is completely making shit up. Shall we all speculate on what Agatha Christie or Shakespeare would have made of it?

I personally think it's rather unlikely he would have come out in bullish support of a sexist, homophobic bully cult, but it's perfectly reasonable to think he would likely have just kept his head down.

But to underline again, in the saddest voice I can express, because it still makes me sad - TERRY PRATCHETT IS DEAD.

Jesus, have these idiots not got enough trendies and politicos in their pocket against women, kids and LGB people without co-opting corpses??

@Waitwhat23

I've seen many TRA's trying to co-opt Cherry as trans when it's blatantly obvious (to me at least) that dwarf society was 'male default' and women were seen as less than. Cherry receives many vile insults from the deep downers because she is a woman, rather than the fact she's wearing a skirt and lipstick. I think Pratchett (a sensible and kind man from all accounts) would have been astounded by the anti women sentiments which seems to be societies norm at the moment.

One of the "female" dwarves kept identifying as male, and this has been accepted by others since it made him happy. No rants about "biological reality!!1!".

twitter.com/shaun_vids/status/1421442593225904135

I personally think it's rather unlikely he would have come out in bullish support of a sexist, homophobic bully cult

I think it's rather unlikely he would have come out in bullish support of a transphobic gender-policing bully cult, actually.

“Bully cult” 😂

“Let. That. Penetrate.” Remind me who said that again? 🤔

Great band name btw.

Well. However this started it's pretty distasteful.

Whatever pal. Had my fill of dickheads rocking up from Twitter where the current fad is to shame homosexuals for being homosexual.

Call me transphobic again, do. It just creates a delicious little tickle these days.

And you're just making up strawmen, trans people don't say you "must've been wrong in the wrong body" if you don't like dresses

Wasn't it Mermaids who used the 'born in the wrong body' analogy until recently? The one which has had to be banned from use in schools because it was being used?

@Bunmei One of the "female" dwarves kept identifying as male, and this has been accepted by others since it made him happy. No rants about "biological reality!!1!".

Cool. Cherry didn't identify as male. She was female, presenting as a man, because of patriarchal expectations, not because she was trans. Your point?

'Is deriding trans women as "men in dresses" (which is definitely used as a pejorative) and shaming them for expressing any joy in feminine expression how you express your "support" for people "wearing whatever they want"?'

If you have to dishonestly put words in my mouth, you've not got much of an argument @Bunmei

Also, the term bully cult is so well illustrated by this - www.terfisaslur.com