I'm scared

[WantonSoup]

Hi all,

I am a lurker and it is only in the past year or so I have learnt about trans rights and women's rights issues.

It scares me. It feels like we have to defend the use of the word woman and if we are gender critical we are seen as outcasts.

My anxiety is at an all time high because of this. I have my own opinions on the subject and when I have voiced them I am met with disdain and made to feel I am wrong.

Being on this board has both scared and reassured me. I feel very unsettled to see how people with gender critical views are treated and I also see that people are starting to push back. I am not brave enough to put me head above the parapet and I thank all here who do.

Thank you.

I suppose what I am asking is, how do I stop feeling scared about this issue? How do those who are brave enough to speak out cope with any anxiety if at all?

I just don't know how to deal with it.

@happydays2345

These sycophantic posts always make me feel a bit sick

I know. It's so disheartening to see women supporting women in saying no to men! FFS!!

Human beings cannot change sex.

We shouldn't need to 'be brave' to state facts.

I've only been on the forums for a couple of months, and found things were so much worse than I'd thought they were. I hadn't known, for example, what was already going on with women losing their rights to single sex spaces in other countries. I hadn't known that children in schools were being brainwashed into believing regressive junk about what girls and boys "should" be like. I hadn't known that Stonewall had fingers in so many pies and that it was all about the T in LGBT now. I found out how many people in positions of power seem to have fallen for all the baloney. I found out that nobody could argue for the rights of women and girls without being called transphobic and perhaps losing their jobs. I found out that there are so many people who are happy to deny science to fit in with the ideology (looking at you, Alice Roberts. Disappointed.) I'm finding out that women who claim to be feminists are supporting an ideology that will damage the safety and opportunities of women and girls (Nicola Sturgeon).
Yes, OP, it's terrifying and the worse thing is that you want to warn everyone about what's happening and can't do it without exposing yourself....
I'm so grateful to brave and intelligent women (and men) who are getting our voices heard...

You'll notice snipers often target threads like this, or any of the thoughtful threads where compassionate women raise questions about things they're unsure of.

A few years ago, someone started a thread about how she felt her mental health was suffering, and the active TRAs on the board at the time were absolutely vicious to the OP and everyone who posted discussing how it felt to be defending what you had previously trusted was safe. Mental health slurs, the lot.

It was such a watershed moment for me in understanding that whatever the PR claims of the rainbow gang, they view women with the utmost contempt. They never engage the substantive threads with evidence. But they will zero in on anything the perceive as weakness, ready to stick the boot in.

They never seem to understand their behaviour galvanizes women.

@happydays2345

These sycophantic posts always make me feel a bit sick

You don't know what sycophantic means. Try not to use words when you don't know what they mean, it makes you look stupid.

I’m fairly new to this and I’m already finding it both scary (my level of anger, and the fear of speaking up) and exhausting.

Some small things I’m doing are - donating (small) amounts to a few fundraisers and causes, I’ve subscribed to the Sex Matters website, supporting journalists/authors by clicking on their articles or buying their books and/or ‘liking’ comments on the articles and positive book reviews, stickering (I get such a buzz from seeing my sticker still there days and weeks later ), and posting on here even if I don’t feel intelligent enough just a “thanks for posting this” to boost the thread.

@ivegotdreadfulpmttoday

I too have been afraid to say what I think. No longer.

My belief is that trans is trans.

Men can become trans but they can't become women.

Their choice. Their life experience is completely different. I respect it and I respect their choice. It's a new road but it's not the road women walk down.

I am pleased that you have found the courage to speak out.
But with respect perhaps you should educate yourself a little or at least think about what you post.

Men (or women) don't "become" Trans.

It's not a new road, Trans people have always existed and it is indeed a road that many women walk down

But with respect perhaps you should educate yourself a little or at least think about what you post.

With respect, perhaps you should try to understand that women have opinions too, and they do not have to conform (which is essentially what you mean by 'educate') to yours.

Imasoulman, if this is true:

Men (or women) don't "become" Trans.

Can you help me understand the exponential rise in teenage girls who showed no sign of dysphoria as children, suddenly wishing to transition? And doing so in clusters? Why is that?

@Artichokeleaves

But with respect perhaps you should educate yourself a little or at least think about what you post.

With respect, perhaps you should try to understand that women have opinions too, and they do not have to conform (which is essentially what you mean by 'educate') to yours.

I know women have opinions thank you and I actually agree with most of them. I defend womens rights just as fervently as any feminist.

The comments the poster made are just not factual, I was simply pointing that out.

There are many parts of this debate that are not factual.

@Undersnatch

Imasoulman, if this is true:

Men (or women) don't "become" Trans.

Can you help me understand the exponential rise in teenage girls who showed no sign of dysphoria as children, suddenly wishing to transition? And doing so in clusters? Why is that?

It's social contagion, I think we all know that.

99% of these girls are not actually trans, they may believe they are, they may be being convinced they are but as I said we all realise that they aren't.

Which is why they need protecting from going down an irreversible path that they will come to regret.

No one just "becomes" trans !

@Artichokeleaves

There are many parts of this debate that are not factual.

Indeed there are

Not sure this is the most appropriate thread to be nitpicking women's language when the premise of the thread is about being scared by this whole situation.

Some males do 'become' trans, some say it stems all the way from childhood, some retcon their lives to fit. Doesn't really matter, and without a clear definition of terms, it's impossible to be authoritative in those claims.

It's also completely irelevant when discussing being able to campaign for women's rights and protections without fear and when the relentless threats and control attempts get a bit much.

People who support women's rights might want to consider that.

Men (or women) don't "become" Trans.

That's pure speculation and a sweeping generalisation. Trans people are not a homogeneous group. Or is this a No True Scotsman argument?

It used to be called being gender nonconformity. I am very uncomfortable in fancy girly preening parts of shops. It doesn't feel like me. I am a woman. Does that mean I am trans. No, it means I don't like that shit. And I respect that others do.
I have a male family member who, as a kid, loved to wear nail varnish. Is he trans? No, he's a gay man who was working stuff out.

A few years ago, someone started a thread about how she felt her mental health was suffering, and the active TRAs on the board at the time were absolutely vicious to the OP and everyone who posted discussing how it felt to be defending what you had previously trusted was safe. Mental health slurs, the lot.

One TRA even wrote a nasty blog dismissing it and namechecked everyone on the thread with reference to our posts.

@FloralBunting

Not sure this is the most appropriate thread to be nitpicking women's language when the premise of the thread is about being scared by this whole situation.

Some males do 'become' trans, some say it stems all the way from childhood, some retcon their lives to fit. Doesn't really matter, and without a clear definition of terms, it's impossible to be authoritative in those claims.

It's also completely irelevant when discussing being able to campaign for women's rights and protections without fear and when the relentless threats and control attempts get a bit much.

People who support women's rights might want to consider that.

I agree that this isn't the right post for this discussion and I apologise to the op.

I will bow out.

I was in the Helen Joyce webinar this week and asked this question "How are we doing? I find we have positive news followed by negative news. I have lost perspective, can you help and give a realistic assessment of where we are? Are we making enough progress"

We have all felt like you op, but Helen said (as someone has already said) this is not a sprint, trying to undo all that has happened is going to take time. Her assessment was around 10 years. She talked about how unaware people are and when things become known, there is a shift. She said so many areas will highlight issues such as women's prisons, self identification, women's sports, medication of children. She also mentioned Ireland and how conservative the country is. That legislation was pushed through without knowledge and slowly information is getting out there and this will cause change.

She made me feel positive. Just started her book, Trans. She said there will be other books because publishers have stuff in the pipeline and wanted to see how her book was accepted. It's in the best sellers, what more do you need to cheer you up.

All the best OP, take heart

Welcome to the fray, OP. This Terven Coven is one of the most supportive and well informed spaces I know, and it’s a rare place of sanity on the internet. When the nonsense Out There gets a bit much, I always seem better after reading the posts of the GC and rad fem women here. They’re awesome

Thanks all again for your replies. I appreciate the support. I feel less alone now 😊

I will speak out when I can and make sure to take breaks when needed.

To those of you taking a more active stance than I, I thank you and wish you all well.

No idea why my post was deleted. Is it because I said I was scared of all the perverts that take advantage of the opportunities to get at women and children? If so, I didn't say they were trans did I. That's the assumption of whoever deleted the post.

Indeed, just a handy cover to piggy back under if someone is so inclined.

I think the terminology is important to newbies like me.

There is a difference between "become" and "identify as". I think the former implies say, someone choosing to be gay, whereas the latter implies finding a name for feelings.

I'm probably completely wrong. But less ammunition is a good thing.

That said, I stuff up all the time. Unlike you widely experienced posters.

I understand why you're scared, because it is frightening that so many people are acting like fucking zombies. No one can be a trans woman without being a man, that's literally how it works.

I get it OP, it's a bit overwhelming at times. It's pulling back the curtain and realising there is so much rotten underneath.

I sometimes need to step away and spend time thinking about/ engaging with other things. But usually some other ridiculousness pulls me back in, and I'm so grateful to have the wonderful, wise, funny women on this board to share ideas and discussions with. and reassure me that the truth matters. Even if there are those who would try and deceive us.

I think realising how much anger and vitriol is spewed at women for even talking about our rights, or objecting and saying no, makes me understand more that for some people (men) this is just another way to put us in our place. That spurs me on to fight back and keep going.

Like PP said, it will take years, and I'm prepared for that. Every little battle matters, and this is mobilising many women who thought that feminism wasn't needed anymore - how wrong we were.

I'm not prepared to sit back and pretend that the sky is green, because it isn't.