Police engagement with women survey, a chance to feedback

[Enough4me]

I saw this advertised on Twitter:

www.homeofficesurveys.homeoffice.gov.uk/s/HQN4MK/?s=09

There is already a post asking if a survey will be set up for males, but the point is that females struggle to find protection from males and with selfID the situation will get worse. Women are not even protected from rape in women's prisons.

I thought this may be a useful link for women to honestly share their experiences (NB. This is not a link to log an offense, but to feedback about the experience of police engagement).

It is sexist and individuals need to feedback why to help push for change. Bump

I agree I was flummoxed by the fact there was only one tick box for each category. Violence? Loads. Inappropriate touching? Likewise.

I've mentioned Sarah Everard's case in the free text boxes. The police should boot offenders off the force pronto and in public.

This survey is still open.

Posters have commented that the survey is poorly written, which it probably is. However, I have been on MN for years (name changed a few times) and know women have not received fair treatment therefore sharing as may help some on here.

I definitely think it's worth filling in. I gave a lot of details in the free text boxes.

Its always a difficult one i find - you'll never get crime level down to 0% and whilst the judicial system is 'proven beyond reasonable doubt' detection rates will always be low for certain crimes.

The vast majority of people in society are decent, law abiding people and will not engage in activities which will result in harm to another. You will however always have a small percentage who are violent.

And it effects both men and women - 75% of violent crime victims are male - and women can also be violent towards others - recent cases where babies have been left to die or suffered at their hands.

Males are generally the more violent between the two genders and if you extrapolate that out then the top 10% of violent people will be male; hence why the jails are mostly men.

Now i think if you can remove that 10% permanently, you will probably see a big drop in violent crime. I think if its a survey about how to achieve safer communities for females this will be the only answer. You will never change the mentality of that violent 10%

The survey is about over 18 women's experiences, not to deny that men can also be victims, but to look ahead at supporting women.

Women are more likely to suffer worse injuries, women are more likely to be intimidated and controlled, women are more likely to die at the hands of their 'loving' partner.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria Many individual officers are not worthy of respect and there is an utter lack of accountability. The CPS are no better.
If you have something to say, there is plenty of opportunity within that form and I have used it to the full.
@Enough4me Thanks for sharing. I've already made formal complaints but some things can't be said often enough.

3 dead women a week but noone cares why. Biggest problem not the police. It's lack of help to leave domestic violence and not enough safe homes. Go to refuge then what. If you don't have advocate who wants to fight for you, no nowhere safe to move on to do you homeless or have to go back. Pot luck if you have good advocate and depends where you live. Police what can they do? Arrest perpetrator but then what? They have to release them and then you either at bigger risk cos perpetrator angrier or you homeless. With good domestic abuse advocate, you get referred for rehousing somewhere safe. Bad or no advocate and you have no hope. Police so bad? Guess what bad domestic abuse places say? Instead of helping, they tell you to just call police or just leave. If all victims could just leave, why waste public money on domestic abuse agencies. When you prisoner for years, not allowed to work or get healthcare or have friends, when serious violence and control, you can't just leave. You need help. Councils when you approach for housing help. Some are outright abusive. I've had serious physical violence but genuinely council behaviour made me feel suicidal. Felt same amount of pain and distress as after partner abuse. Not exaggerating. Humiliating and violating worse than abuser to be treated so abusively by places you beg for help. They break law and get away with it cos if you don't have advocate to fight for you, council takes advantage of how vulnerable you are and not safe to make a fuss complain.

Police not reason why 3 women a week murdered. I posted before and people think I'm bad person for saying this but don't care cos admit am bitter and very broken. I hope I am murdered so they get into trouble for not helping. Was so frightened to trust places and finally got persuades to get help. Took leap of faith, took all strength I had, then turns out I was right all along not to trust.

If police so bad like what people say on threads like this, how come places meant to help don't advocate and help get me safe place and tell me instead to call police.

I think the figures are being slightly skewed here. Looking at the Office of National Statistics for homicide figures with the most recently published figures for annual totals:

99 female victims are from domestic setting type murders - which equates to about 1 every 4 days - (lower than 3 per week often quoted on here). This also relates to about 50% of all female murder victims. So these other victims will be via friends/associates/strangers etc.

There were about 30 male victims of domestic murder - although this equates to only 8% of all male murder victims.

The majority of murder victims are male (64%) with females at 36%. The majority of male murders happen via a friend/acquaintance and usually happen on a street/alley way. 50% of female murders happen in the home.

Now before i continue, I'm not trying to be all 'men are victims too you know' I'm just showing the trends in which the police & support services use to base their funding on.

Interestingly, there are a lot of campaigns for safer streets for women and girls (following in part from the Sarah Everard murder - which was indeed a horrible incident). But the majority of female murders happen in the home and the majority of male murders (and hence murders in general) happen on the streets.

Murders and serious offences a such as rapes are treated very seriously by the police. The problems about getting justice at court etc are often beyond what the police can influence. They can only present the evidence to the CPS. CPS need to have a expectation of a conviction at court before they take the case further.

Then the sentencing at court is often lower than what the victim's family would find acceptable.

For victims of domestic violence, there are a whole host of support agencies in place. The judicial system can also impose DVPN's and restraining orders on the perpetrator to keep the victims safe.

Local authorities will also prioritise available housing for victims.

I'll be interested to see what kind of suggestions people are wanting the police to consider in this survey.

You'll never get the crime & murder rate to 0. Bad people exist and they will always manifest themselves on the law abiding communities.

www.homeofficesurveys.homeoffice.gov.uk/s/HQN4MK/?s=09
Bump

For victims of domestic violence, there are a whole host of support agencies in place. The judicial system can also impose DVPN's and restraining orders on the perpetrator to keep the victims safe.

No good rubbish often just fake pretend help on their websites. Try it out and see the reality. Some really kind good people and organisations but postcode lottery and then depends if the person decides if that want to help you. Some don't. My experiences made me as suicidal as when really bad abuse from partner.

Whole host of support agencies in place only officially. Try reality.

DVPN what good if victim of long-term abuse where not allowed to or able to work often cos of injuries. Victim told if police they be homeless and it's true for some of us. How is that ok. Cruel to trick victim, encourage them to try for help then say oh well now no abuse, who cares if you homeless. So you stay with abuse. Restraining order. When serious aduse serious violence with abuser who will kill you and themselves, they don't care about restraining order. We need safe homes more than that. Nowhere safe to go, no way out unless DV advocate who is willing to fight for you. If they want to, they can get you safely rehoused but only if they want to.

Local authorities will also prioritise available housing for victims.

All rubbish. Some do the right thing but others don't and break the law. They do everything they can to not help.

Legal rights nothing without help to enforce them.

I've been pushed to the edge by a local authority. At times don't want to wake up anymore.

They left me at risk for months. So much trauma and fear and distress caused by them. Turn to them for help and end up seeing them as much as abusers as violent partner. They was supposed to rehouse me from refuge. I was lied to. Why tell me I'm at risk of being killed then no safe place safe settled home after refuge. Local authority treating me like I'm a piece of shit.

One particular council behaving so badly. Not legal what they're doing but they taking advantage of me being vulnerable DV victim, frightened to complain.

They've left me at risk, everyday on edge having to be ready to run in an emergency all over again. Took all my strength to do it. How can I go through it again. Exhausted. Thought finally would be safe settled able to recover and rebuild.

Was so frightened and one reason I stayed for years was cos partner said if I called police, I'd be homeless or unsafe mixed sex hostel. He's right.

Locality authority breaking law. So what if legally priority need. No good if local authority ignores the law. They left me at risk. No recent physical violence but never know when or if happens again. Serious harm has happened to my mental health.

They make up lies, ignore messages and don't return phone calls. Tell you to apply somewhere else cos apparently law different in other councils. Know they lying.

They got evidence from refuge and did violating long interview. Humiliating detail.
Then they ignored emails from social services. Didn't reply to my messages and phone calls never answered or person not there. Get told they'll call you back but they never do.

They leave you at risk frightened and vulnerable. Eventually after months, they reply and ask for more evidence cos they saying me and refuge lying. Why wait months leaving me at risk? If wanted more information or evidence, why didn't they ask all the months I contacting them frightened and at risk, desperate for rehousing. They told me need more evidence of abuse but say messages threatening to kill aren't evidence, and they didn't reply to social services. They keep just trying to get rid of me without helping.

I asked to speak to manager again. Never there but will call me back they say but never get call backs. Clock ticking on if I'll have chance to leave. Now they saying they can't speak on phone has to be in writing but they ignore emails. Also I have no named person dealing with my case. Meant to have one. Been told interview person is first stage so not right person. They won't give a name. They sent email telling me to contact in writing only. Not addressed personally to me. Like I'm too worthless. Instead of Dear Ms X, it just says Hello (no personal name added). Then no sign off name either. Just from Housing Officer. They legally meant to give me housing officer. Sorry long post. So tired so worn down so sick of living unsafe and looks like no end in sight.

I was feeling so desperate to be safe but now giving up.

Local authority as abusive as an abuser. Not physical but as psychologically abusive. Running out of chance to leave and everyday waiting for help, trapped waiting. It's destroying me. No human can live like this long. Million times worse asking begging for help and being treated so badly by law breaking abusive local authority.

I wasn't allowed friends. Was given fake hope tricked into leaving for refuge. Now worse than before. Him angrier, me more vulnerable, and so isolated in a sort of prison. Too scared to contact friends in case he finds out. Stuck under his control, forced to just wait if and when attacked again.

Local authority abusive behaviour to vulnerable victims and noone really cares. Some kind DV organisation do care but postcode lottery. No advocate, no help. I know most likely I'll just end up homeless or suicide or injured but I actually hope I'm murdered cos don't want the local authority to get away with their behaviour. Hope if I'm murdered, will be serious case review failed safeguarding. Sorry long post. Upset and sick fear in stomach cos still not safe and settled. All I wanted was thst chance and it was sold falsely to me.

Local authorities bad bad people in many. Abusers. Priority need is officially on paper only. Reality different.

nosafeguarding

I've met women who have been rehoused away from abusers, only to find the abuser is rehoused on their street despite many convictions against her for violence.

There are too few services. The ones that exist were, for the most part, started by women, and are oversubscribed.

nosafeguardingadults

You have had a horrible time and let down by the services put in place to help you. I would suggest that this is more the exception to the norm - obviously no comfort for your situation. What authority area do you live in?

Our area has a host of support services which have had loads of positive feedback from victims
Harbour, My Sister's Place, HALO, Eva, Women's Aid to name but a few.

We have a number of managed women's hostels which work with them ensure their safety, ensure they have housing available when they leave the hostel, assist with child care, assist with legal process (courts etc)

We have private landlords who work directly with the support groups to assist in housing. The support groups also can place CCTV cameras up and keep in regular contact with victims if they wish.

The courts prioritise domestic abuse cases and go down heavily on perpetrators.

Have you tried the local ombudsmen if your local authority has failed you in such a way? They are duty bound by due process and will have to follow their rules.

filled in

DVPN's by the way will not make the victim homeless - we can eject the perpetrator from their own home regardless of who is the home owner, who pays the mortgage, who's name is on the tenancy agreement. The conditions will usually prevent perp from coming with 100m of the address or entering the estate etc.

The Hazel Lewis case is fascinating. She's suing the Met Police now, apparently.

She basically got arrested for upsetting people with her words (Christian preaching), and someone in the Met and the CPS were absolutely determined to do her for an offence.

The District Judge Julia Newton was having none of it:

"Further, in relation to distress. It is clear that [a witness] was disturbed and found them to be unpleasant. She said that other people were distressed. She said that she was distressed and found these words were unpleasant. However, that does not amount to harassment, alarm or distress."

So the Police have a lot of lessons to learn here about women + words + someone 'being upset' NOT actually equally a crime.

It won't be harassment a such - it will have been part of the public order act - threatening abusive words or behaviour causing harassment, alarm or distress. If you have a member of the public who states that they have been caused harassment, alarm, distress and is prepared to stand up in court and say it - then the points to prove have been satisfied & the crime is carried. And a crime is created upon a victim confirmation, which we have here - so if a crime wasn't created, the police would be guilty of failing to record.

Now, its then upto the court & CPS to examine & test the points to satisfy a conviction. Obviously here the court concluded a not guilty return.

I'm not saying it was right what the police did, but that will be the line they are coming from. And if they did not act at the scene - the witness would be the one making the headlines complaining that the police have failed to act when they were caused harassment, alarm, distress.

So, i don't think its the police's fault as different officers would have dealt with it differently. One bad cop maybe, but i don't think its a trend.

Bump

It says the survey is closed.