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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Savage Minds Substack: Julian Vigo interviews Julia Long, on inconsistencies within the feminist and gender-critical movements.

8 replies

R0wantrees · 29/07/2021 17:48

"Julia Long, a lesbian feminist, writer and activist, discusses the inconsistencies within the feminist and gender-critical movements—from the formation of social media activism groups whereby some women play along with the theatre of the transgender identity from recycling the “preferred pronouns” to the most fundamental illogicity of a movement that claims to be against gender while reinforcing certain men’s delusions of gender. Highlighting this political move of certain women to play along with the illusion of gender, also known as the “true trans” model, Long highlights a fundamental split amongst those advocating for women’s rights. She also contends that women who don’t see the contradiction in claiming gender as harmful while keeping certain men as immune from this analytical critique while also contributing to the “general amnesia around radical feminist writing” which Long highlights as being suppressed by the various actors who believe themselves virtuous actors engaging in political negotiations and lobbying which involves “feminine socialisation” that compels these women to “play nice” to the male subject." (contiues)

savageminds.substack.com/p/julia-long

Julian Vigo has a lot of really interesting interviews on her substack. Its worth following and supporting

OP posts:
BettyFilous · 29/07/2021 18:16

Julian Vigo has a lot of really interesting interviews on her substack. Its worth following and supporting

Completely agree. Her Savage Minds podcast is my current go-to. I don’t agree with everything JV says or her guests, but the interviews are always thought-provoking.

FlyPassed · 29/07/2021 21:40

Excellent, I'll listen to this on my morning walk. Thanks!

WarriorN · 29/07/2021 21:52

Thanks, look forward to listening.

The Gina Rippon one was excellent.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 29/07/2021 22:31

It's a much needed challenge to pay attention to Julia Long's argument. I self-edit by default so it's fascinating when others have no such filters on speech or thought.

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/07/2021 17:25

Thanks for the link R0 that was a fascinating discussion - a breath of fresh air to listen to a conversation based in material reality.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 01/08/2021 18:52

I agree. As ever, I find myself on the fence in some respects. I am in total agreement with Julia Long about how good it would be to use normal, straightforward language and especially pronouns to refer to certain individuals. I personally can't refer to people I know to be male using she/her. I just can't. I'm not on the autistic spectrum but I have relatives who are, and I've wondered if I have a cast of mind that makes it particularly difficult for me to contemplate going along with this fiction, that a person whose sex is not in dispute identifies with the other sex and should therefore be referred to as if they do in fact belong to that sex.

However, I feel she underestimates the difficulty facing some prominent gender critical people. Yes, they may have secure academic appointments. They're still vulnerable to complaints from students and grievances raised by colleagues, and going through that is a miserable experience, resulting in isolation from colleagues and a lot of vile stuff on social media, which won't go away even if the grievance/complaint is dismissed. Mud sticks.

I don't know how Julia pays the bills. Posie/Kellie-Jay appears to be self-employed now, earning something from the merchandising I assume, with the fallback that her husband has a good job. Not everyone is in that position.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 01/08/2021 23:18

I don't know how Julia pays the bills. Posie/Kellie-Jay appears to be self-employed

I likewise fret about my personal security and keeping a roof over the head of those who depend on me.

But Julia Long and Julian Vigo in combination with Helen Lewis and Karen Stenner's disturbing discussion about authoritarianism make me reflect that I am feeling under siege. I worry that I am contributing to the inevitability of that which I most fear.

Yet Stenner's research emphasises that it is only collective action that can exert influence by emphasising the values that we all share (I paraphrase). OTOH, I recognise this from Denton's playbook and the forced teaming of successful civil rights movements that is now contributing to the authoritarianism of compelled speech and reputational harm for non-compliance.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4311625-Interesting-interview-about-authoritarianism-R4-Helen-Lewis-Karen-Stenner?

I shall listen to both podcasts again although I doubt it will be more comfortable next time around.

Bosky · 02/08/2021 04:49

Related video by "Partners for Ethical Care":

"True Trans" Claims
31 July 2021

Alix and Erin explore the dangerous claim that some people are "true trans" and how accepting the claim undermines efforts to protect children from medical abuse and protect women's rights.

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