Surgeons advertise procedures to free non binary people of all genitals

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

Surgeons in the USA, via California are advertising surgeries to non-binary people that will remove their 'genital structures' so that their body will resemble 'neither male nor female'.

How this be allowable I have no idea. It seems like a free for all for unethical surgeons, coming up with bizarre concepts of what non-binary should be, based on their own imaginings.

Women are Human

Stereotyped relative that should say.

TheSlayer

I do thin it's interesting that a lot of the mums I've known who really bought into gender ideology were also super into raising kids without gendered toys or clothes. So maybe there is some sort of link or logic that can connect them.

The conclusion that I've come to is that children, as they come to understand themselves as sexed beings, go through stages of seeing that as concretised in social ways - clothing, or names, or pronouns help them at these early stages sort out who belongs in what category. At this stage they often make over-generalisations or see things that are cultural, rather than physical, as permanent.

Over time through maturation and experience they refine their earlier ideas and begin to understand what is essential and what isn't. This parallels other learning processes in children, and it doesn't mean that because a four year old thinks boys can't have long hair, that they will grow up to think the same thing.

From a parental perspective we help kids realise the difference but it doesn't actually require that we rail against all cultural markers of sex to make that happen, or that we have to work to undermine them. But in terms of kids understanding their own sex as permanent and physical,
it's normal that at times they concretise these visible markers and relate their sense of being a boy or girl to them.

So I have wondered - if we make it very difficult for kids to form these concretisations at stages when that is normal, can that make it harder to form a sense of themselves as male and female? Maybe not in a society where the differences were more evident in other ways, but i ours it's not so much. Plus we now have all kinds of weird ideas floating around that may be counterproductive.

It does seem like a potentially bad mix to me.

I don't know. In Tudor times all children were raised like sexless larvae clothing wise. Girls and boys were sorted education wise later and then finally by adult clothing.

Yet they certainly knew who was a girl and who was a boy.

We're gender critical gender neutral parents. I don't know how that generally plays out as we're fairly unique(and son always has the nicest jeans because we buy from the girls section!)

Well, it's logical, in the way that gender ideology has its own very warped logic, and if you buy into the idea that genitals = gender it makes its own kind of sense.

But aren’t we also always told that any gender can have any genitals, and having a “genital preference” is hateful and transphobic?

Someone make it make sense!

Why keep your genitals "down there." Why not put them on your arm. Or your head. I mean as long as we're making shit up, why should we limit ourselves? Instead of being nonbinary by cutting off both of your boobs, just cut off one, like the amazons did. It's all so bizarre.

What the hell happened to "first, do no harm"?

and if you buy into the idea that genitals = gender it makes its own kind of sense

but... Gender ideologists always claim your gender has nothing to do with genitals everything to do with what's in your head, cry "stop reducing people to genitals" etc.
Now it's the opposite? So your gender identity is actually linked to genitals? But... I thought... We were bigots for.... I basically give up.

@OldCrone

There are also examples of people wanting both male and female genitalia.

The article mentions that as well.

The same company offers a procedure called “phalgina,” or “penile preservation vaginoplasty,” which allows males who identify as transgender or non-binary to install a facsimile of a vagina while retaining the penis.

Do not Google image "penile preservation vaginoplasty".

But I thought that genitals were irrelevant to gender?

@PrincessNutella

Why keep your genitals "down there." Why not put them on your arm. Or your head. I mean as long as we're making shit up, why should we limit ourselves? Instead of being nonbinary by cutting off both of your boobs, just cut off one, like the amazons did. It's all so bizarre.

I can think of plenty of people who should have their genitals on their heads as they seem to identify that way.

This is absolutely hideous, and harmful.

I could well have gotten myself caught up with being non-binary if I was born in 2000 and not 1980, I wasn’t particularly into ‘feminine’ clothes or fashion and I wasn’t particularly interested in anybody sexually apart from celeb crushes … and I was adamant I didn’t want children. Then when I was 26 I met my DH. And everything changed. And i am sure that is the case for many people.

How are we encouraging this labelling of people and then giving them life altering surgery to fit that label ??

@ChickenpoxQ

and if you buy into the idea that genitals = gender it makes its own kind of sense

but... Gender ideologists always claim your gender has nothing to do with genitals everything to do with what's in your head, cry "stop reducing people to genitals" etc.
Now it's the opposite? So your gender identity is actually linked to genitals? But... I thought... We were bigots for.... I basically give up.

Well, presumably all the people crowdfunding for surgery are seeking to have their genitals surgically altered for a reason, no?

Please don't shoot me down; just offering a glimpse into a mindset. So, I do not identify as a man for sure, and I love girly stuff. However, honestly, if I could have my breasts and lower region just cut off, erased, I would. Not saying it's good, but I'm sure many feel the same. Also, before all this hype, when I was much younger, because I was so skinny, people around me, including drs, literally bluntly told me shit like "you are a woman, you need breasts." Like THEY were upset I didn't have breasts (also btw my family genetics would preclude me from ever having large breasts w/o surgery or morbidly obese) because in THEIR minds I did not look like a "woman."

I think a lot of this is fallout from previous generations' strict mindset on sex, gender stereotypes. I was constantly told, you need more breasts, you're a woman. Actually I literally would rather be in a child body or just have literally no breasts, nipples, below region or equipment. I'm not saying it's healthy or normal. I personally think whatever you wanna do to your body you should be able to. You aren't your body, you live IN a body. Now the encroaching on women's spaces is NOT good. But as far as each individual's body choices, it is their body.

Interesting though, when I was young I was berated for not wanting breasts. Nowadays, I could've had em off by next week!

Society should get better at helping people be ok in the body they are in. I think this is where a lot of this stems from. We are shamed from the moment we can talk, even before, day in, day out. I think it's been so much for decades that this is the natural conclusion of poor humans' bodies being attacked and shamed that everyone is gonna be identifying out of their body and/or changing it. I have no solutions. Just offering a perspective from someone who hates their body but not going the meds or surgery route cuz I hate drs and also it could be something worse and you can't go back. Plus I am not my body; it's some disgusting meat sack I'm imprisoned in, but someday you die and are free, so that is my comfort.

I'm sorry you have had those experiences and I'm sorry you feel that way, Wingless. Are you able to access support?