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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Intersex Equality Rights

17 replies

Shedbuilder · 24/07/2021 17:46

In the background of this rather startling picture, apparently taken today in London

twitter.com/theedijester/status/1418932337514004482/photo/1

I see someone waving what appears to be a placard demanding Intersex Equality Rights. I'm trying to think what rights intersex people don't have. Can anyone enlighten me?

OP posts:
Sonarl · 24/07/2021 17:48

Same as trans people, black people, white people, men, women - none. They're called human rights for a reason.

Leafstamp · 24/07/2021 17:54

Who knows?!

Having read the Twitter thread, it seems the character in the forefront of the photo may be this person:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383992/amp/Violent-inmate-Alan-Baker-given-10-000-sex-change-NHS.html

AbandonedCharacter · 24/07/2021 17:55

The right not to be dragged into arguments about gender?

AbandonedCharacter · 24/07/2021 18:01

I mean by TRA not FWR!

Shedbuilder · 24/07/2021 18:48

[quote Leafstamp]Who knows?!

Having read the Twitter thread, it seems the character in the forefront of the photo may be this person:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383992/amp/Violent-inmate-Alan-Baker-given-10-000-sex-change-NHS.html[/quote]
Yes, hair-raising that someone who seems to have spent 30 years in jail for violent assault is out there flashing his tits and urging trans people to do crime. I'm sure it'll do wonders for the cause. Several women are pointing out that if they bared their breasts they'd be arrested, but because these are man-breasts they're okay.

I hope his/her probation officer's watching.

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 24/07/2021 18:56

I mentioned earlier today that the British Library has conflated gender identity and intersex in an exhibit for a current exhibition, suggested that:
Today, [Augustine] Hull might identify as intersex or transgender

As if 'intersex' and transgender are interchangeable. It's also a characterisation of what was then reported as transvestism and to some extent recognised as homosexuality (1930s).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4304834-British-Library-exhibition-Unfinished-Business-The-Fight-for-Womens-Rights

archive of Twitter thread for readability: archive.is/1OBtl

twitter.com/theedijester/status/1418932337514004482

archive of DM piece for anyone who doesn't want to click or finds this more readable: archive.is/HyPob

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383992/amp/Violent-inmate-Alan-Baker-given-10-000-sex-change-NHS.html

orkid · 24/07/2021 19:02

Going back to OP's question, I an other people with intersex conditions would probably like to have the right not to be dragged into the alphabet soup and considered a subset of the trans community :(.

I see more and more the use of LGBTQI+ and other combinations, done thoughtlessly with no regard to how most IS people wanting to blend in and not considered a third sex. I see the German spa special day for "trans and intersex people" - not sure if IS people asked to be included and if they need to be mentioned explicitly. And so it goes.

The current TRA inclusion of I is truly upsetting.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 24/07/2021 19:22

I’m so sorry Orkid. I’ve seen people with DSD ask so many times not too be dragged into this issue but they’re repeatedly ignored

As always , we know who has the real power here :/

Deliriumoftheendless · 24/07/2021 20:08

As an aside wouldn’t it be horribly offensive to identify as being intersex/having a DSD (no offence meant if the terms are not up to date)? I mean, I know some people do but if I said “I just feel intersex so I’d like to be referred to in that way, despite having a medical history which would suggest I’m not” would that not be hugely inappropriate?

orkid · 24/07/2021 20:46

“I just feel intersex so I’d like to be referred to in that way, despite having a medical history which would suggest I’m not”

Well, lett me present you with one of the most egregious cases of this:

www.vice.com/en/article/43ggpw/ela-xora-the-trans-artist-and-campaigner-in-the-silver-mask

Twenty years I used to help a DSD support group to answer email enquiries, and we had a huge number of enquiries from males who felt they must have AIS or some such, without any physiological indicator. And this was before social media and the increased importance of identity... I don'tt know how the DSD support groups are managing now.

Deliriumoftheendless · 24/07/2021 21:00

I hope they’re doing well, orkid but sadly there are some who will identify into medical conditions to support, well, I don’t know. Their feelings? Their self image?

I’m sorry that anyone thinks it’s acceptable to do this. It seems grossly offensive.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 24/07/2021 21:12

lett me present you with one of the most egregious cases of this:

I had to read some of that a couple of times to make sure that I fully understood the appropriation that was happening there. tbh, I've read it and I'm still agog at the complete lack of insight.

KittenKong · 24/07/2021 21:16

@AbandonedCharacter

The right not to be dragged into arguments about gender?
If they are women, fewer rights than Cornish pasties or cheddar cheese... If they are gay, same rights as everyone else.
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 24/07/2021 21:45

Well, children with DSDs need more legal protection from being taken down a path of invasive medical intervention before they're old enough to consent.

This is absolutely horrific reading, but if we won't listen, then who will?

twitter.com/AliceDreger/status/1418697033498701830?s=19

Shedbuilder · 24/07/2021 22:04

Thanks, Orkid — yes, as a member of the L in LGB I'm still struggling to persuade people to LGB and TQ+, not LGBTQ+. We have nothing in common, we weren't consulted about being welded together and many of the L's want out of the whole car crash. So I hear you.

But do you think IS people would really attend what seems to have been a TQ+ protest to demand IS rights in that way?

OP posts:
orkid · 24/07/2021 23:21

But do you think IS people would really attend what seems to have been a TQ+ protest to demand IS rights in that way?

That's a very good question, Shedbuilder. Adults with DSDs are of course very welcome to identify as trans, or non-binary, or a or queer, whatever. But, as someone who has met hundreds of people with DSDs, I would say the activist, queer types are the tip of the iceberg, and the vast majority of us are quite boring and live incognito with white picket fences.

Some problems arise with the use of intersex to refer to an identity instead of a family of medical conditions. As the link shared by Purgatory shows, medical intervention on (some) kids with DSDs is a huge, serious and urgent problem - and has been urgent for 25 years, when the then ISNA brought this to wide attention. The increasingly vocal and agressive calls to equate DSDs with a third sex and trans and an exotic curiosity is taking the progress made over 20 years backwards, by breaking the trust and weakening the links between parents, the medical experts and adults who can provide their experience.

I really don't think the needs of children with medical care needs is best served by posters asking for human rights displayed in the way they are on the photo shared by the OP. Even if the poster is held by a person with a diagnosed IS condition, who may have their own baggage of poor medical intervention that is driving them to activism.

And then there is the issue that with intersex being an identity, people who are not IS are misrepresenting the IS population. I don't take at face value anyone's use of intersex keyword in their profile.

NiceGerbil · 25/07/2021 02:46

I think in general the 'right' to say leave us alone.

There are existing groups that work for the specific issues those with DSDs face.

They are nothing to do with T but have been included nonetheless.

Very arrogant (surprise surprise).

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