Unixsex changing rooms planned for Poynton Leisure Centre.

[vernacularthreshold123]

Poynton Leisure Centre has plans to expand onto a nearby field.
Sadly, they will put in unisex changing facilities, which will make things very unsafe for women and children.
Can anyone help me work out what to do? For example, who are the people who will provide the insurance for the new centre? Surely they must have been able to work out that attacks on woman and children will increase, when Predators in the North West of UK, find out about these plans.

You can really only point out the statistics on safety for women and children in unisex spaces and ask why they feel this is an improvement, and ask have they done an equality impact assessment on how many regular users will be excluded from their facilities based on disability, race, culture, etc.

And why single sex provisions plus single space cubicles and family cubicles wouldn't solve all the issues much better without excluding anyone in the process.

@Redapplewreath

You can really only point out the statistics on safety for women and children in unisex spaces and ask why they feel this is an improvement, and ask have they done an equality impact assessment on how many regular users will be excluded from their facilities based on disability, race, culture, etc.

And why single sex provisions plus single space cubicles and family cubicles wouldn't solve all the issues much better without excluding anyone in the process.

Thank you Red, that is really good advice. I have collected statistics about attacks on women, and also the fact that women of faith prefer female only spaces. However My feeling is that the people behind these plans have another agenda and it is this. They want to pretend that rape/indecent exposure, is not really a crime. That it does have any impact on the victims. That it doesn't really "matter". I think that they also want to yell "Transphobe" if women and children point out that it DOES matter. I need to get a list of the people who have approved these plans and get them to understand the issues. The problem is that I think they understand, but, they just don't give a damn about women and children's safety..

Doesn't unisex changing facilities just mean everyone gets changed in individual cubicles? They've always had this at our local pool and I much prefer it to open plan single sex, it means parents can change their child of the opposite sex with no issues. There have been no attacks on anyone.

Ask them for their Equality Impact Assessment. Check the groups that they have consulted with ( any women's groups, religious groups ?etc) and also, if not mentioned in the assessment, ask if they have consulted with the Police re likelihood of an increase in voyeurism and exposure incidents and what extra safeguarding measures have they taken to address these issues?

@Tal45

Doesn't unisex changing facilities just mean everyone gets changed in individual cubicles? They've always had this at our local pool and I much prefer it to open plan single sex, it means parents can change their child of the opposite sex with no issues. There have been no attacks on anyone.

@Tal45 I am glad that there have been no attacks on anyone. I think the way forward is to have a "Family" area with individual large cubicles. Also a GUARDED "Women only" area with individual cubicles. Also an area of Trans people. And Lastly an area for men. Both these areas should have cubicles.

The agenda behind Poynton's plans to go Unisex could be to save money, but I also think that it is a pretence that rape does not matter. That it is not really a crime. That those who experience it, are "just making a fuss". Presumably the people who will be insuring the new extended leisure centre will have a different point of view, if and when, the attacks on women and children take place. Below, are examples of attacks, from the print media.

The data emerged four days after Darren Johnson, a serial voyeur, was sentenced to 16 months’ imprisonment after stalking schoolgirls in the unisex changing area of Putney leisure centre in southwest London. Johnson was caught after two 14-year-olds spotted his smartphone poking through a gap from the adjoining cubicle. When police raided his house, they found 150 files of photos taken at the leisure centre. A second voyeur, Anthony Gomes, was caught in the same unisex changing area a few weeks later

Johnson was co-founder of the children’s soft play chain Eddie Catz, where he also filmed his staff and customers via peepholes. His was one of two cases of voyeurism in unisex changing rooms to come up for sentence last week alone.

There were 134 complaints of sexual misconduct in sports centre and swimming pool changing rooms last year, councils said in their FoI responses. Of these, 120 related to incidents that took place in unisex changing rooms and 14 to incidents in single-sex changing rooms. As well as voyeurism, offences recorded in unisex facilities included harassment, sexual assault and rape

The vast majority of reported sexual assaults at public swimming pools in the UK take place in unisex changing rooms, new statistics reveal.

The data, obtained through a Freedom of Information request by the Sunday Times, suggests that unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities.

Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.
What’s more, two thirds of all sexual attacks at leisure centres and public swimming pools take place in unisex changing rooms.

Of 134 complaints over 2017-2018, 120 reported incidents took place in gender-neutral changing rooms and just 14 were in single-sex changing areas.

In a further 46 cases, sexual assault allegations were made about attacks in other areas such as in the pool, in a sports hall or corridors.

Unisex facilities account for less than half the changing areas across the UK, but the number is on the rise - doing away with separate male and female changing rooms and toilets is seen as a way to cut staff costs and better cater for transgender people.

“These figures show that women and girls are more vulnerable in mixed changing rooms and there is a danger these places are becoming a magnet for sexual offenders,” says David Davies, MP for Monmouth.

“It simply doesn’t make sense to enable men to have greater access to women’s spaces. The reforms to gender recognition will grant that access.”
Nsx changing rooms. Put women at danger of sexual assault data reveals the vast majority of reported sexual assault at public swimming pools. In the U K take place in unisex, changing rooms. New statistics reveal the data obtained through a freedom of information request by Sunday Times, suggests that unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls. Men, single sex facilities, just under ninety percent of complaints regarding changing room, sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment, are about incidents in unisex facilities. What's more, two slash three of all sexual attacks at leisure centres, an public swimming pools take place in unisex, changing rooms of one hundred and thirty four complaints over two thousand and seventeen to twenty eighteen. One hundred and twenty reported incidents took in gender, neutral, changing rooms and just fourteen at in single sex, changing areas, unisex facilities account for less than half of the changing areas across the UK. But the number is on the rise doing away with separate male and female. Changing rooms and toilets is seen
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it's a way to cut staff costs an better care for transgender people. These figures show that women and girls are more vulnerable in mixed changing rooms, and there is a danger of these places are becoming a magnet for sexual offenders, says David Davies, Mp4 Monmouth. It simply doesn't sense to enable men to have greater access to women's spaces? The reforms to gender recognition will grant that access the con good unisex, changing areas has proven controversial. Two years ago, first to Chelsea Sports Center in West London Voice, their anger at plans to merge the male and female, changing rooms over fears of compromise privacy and increased risk of sexual harassment. However, it's not just in swimming pools and leisure centres that unisex changing areas are on the rise. High street chain Topshop, for example, has had a gender neutral, changing rooms for nearly a year, but according to Nicole Williams, spokesman

There have been no attacks on anyone.

How could you possibly know that though? The cubicles usually have gaps at the top, it’s not hard for men to abuse the situation.

Why not have single sex spaces as well, for people who want them?

Nantwich have also had many complaints about the UNISEX changing facilities.
It leaves women and children with the following options, if they want to use the outdoor pool.

1. Go and change in the Disabled Toilet. Most do that, but it is not fair if a Disabled person wants to use the loo.
2. Stand outside a cubicle while a family members is getting changed, and stare at any potential male predator. This is not very nice for perfectly normal men who are as humiliated by the Unisex changing room situation, as women are.
3. Don't change at the Unisex facilities at all. Instead, wrap yourself up in a toweling robe, try not to drip on the floor as you make your way to the car, Take the family home and change there. This only works for people who have cars, and who don't mind driving a few miles with everyone in a wet swim suit.

Why are Nantwich so dumb as to do this to people?
Again it is this fantasy that sexual assault doesn't happen in Unisex changing rooms - or - if it does happen - the victims are "taking it too seriously"

Hazel Grove have unisex facilities unless you pay for membership. Can you find any stats on them to use?

@334bu

Ask them for their Equality Impact Assessment. Check the groups that they have consulted with ( any women's groups, religious groups ?etc) and also, if not mentioned in the assessment, ask if they have consulted with the Police re likelihood of an increase in voyeurism and exposure incidents and what extra safeguarding measures have they taken to address these issues?

Thank you @334bu That is really good advice. I think I need to list all these ideas and write to all the religious groups. There is a strong muslim population, fairly close to Poynton, around Handforth and Cheadle. I would think that they have NOT been consulted. So I will write to the Imans first.

@allmywhat

There have been no attacks on anyone.

How could you possibly know that though? The cubicles usually have gaps at the top, it’s not hard for men to abuse the situation.

Why not have single sex spaces as well, for people who want them?

@allmywhat thank you. When I read a message from those who are in denial and who say "Well I'm all right .... so everyone else must be too", I think that this is just part of the overall agenda to negate the importance of female safety. Part of that agenda is to pretend that rape/assault does not happen in Unisex changing facilities. It is a pretence that usually comes from those who were part of the "doo-lally" group who decided to say "YES" to Unisex changing facility. But The REAL responsibility comes with those who are into insurance. Are they really going to insure something so dangerous as a Unisex changing facility? I wonder.

Hazel Grove have unisex facilities unless you pay for membership that's awful. Those who can't afford membership have self i-d imposed on them because the mc's who started all of this, want single sex spaces for themselves. I do hope I've misinterpreted that one

@Tish008

Hazel Grove have unisex facilities unless you pay for membership. Can you find any stats on them to use?

Thank you @Tish008 That is so cruel. Thank you for pointing this out. Why are these people so insane? REALLY. So if you are rich, you get to have safety when you change after a swim. But if you are poor you have to put up with Pervert Central. Because that is the thing - the Child Abuse Networks will make it known to each other, where predators can go to Unisex changing facilities in Cheshire. Poynton, Hazel Grove and Nantwich are going to be TOP dangers zones now. However, thank you for the information. I will try to see who provides insurance for Hazel Grove.

@Tish008

Hazel Grove have unisex facilities unless you pay for membership. Can you find any stats on them to use?

Ooh is privacy, dignity and inclusion for female people becoming a marketable commodity?

No one including the staff working there really know if there have been any assaults or voyeur attacks. Bearing in mind some voyeurs get away unnoticed, not all women report what happens to them (and are surrounded with people telling them it didn't happen and it doesn't matter), its often her word against his, and even fully evidenced rapes end in less than 1% of prosecution. So that one doesn't really fly.

There will be women with autism, with trauma, with situations they will not choose to disclose, who will just stop going: an equality impact assessment should point out how many customers they stand to lose. Also worth checking through MN on leisure centre mixed changing as I've seen many times the comment of women that it takes a staff member constantly patrolling to manage the inappropriate behaviour of male users.

I suspect what you'll hear is it's cheaper, gets around being shouted at, and its only some female people excluded so what the hell.

@Redapplewreath

You can really only point out the statistics on safety for women and children in unisex spaces and ask why they feel this is an improvement, and ask have they done an equality impact assessment on how many regular users will be excluded from their facilities based on disability, race, culture, etc.

And why single sex provisions plus single space cubicles and family cubicles wouldn't solve all the issues much better without excluding anyone in the process.

Good points. thank you @Redapplewreath The thing is - I don't think that the people who push the "Unisex" agenda actually CARE about attacks on women and children.

@highame

Hazel Grove have unisex facilities unless you pay for membership that's awful. Those who can't afford membership have self i-d imposed on them because the mc's who started all of this, want single sex spaces for themselves. I do hope I've misinterpreted that one

Could you say that again? I'm not sure what you mean.

What about the recent government consultation (if that’s the right word) on toilets? Surely the findings are all applicable to changing rooms too? Even more so, I’d say

Extract from a report in the local paper in May.

Edward Smith locked himself in a neighbouring cubicle in the mixed gender changing area as a group of swimmers aged ten to 17 were ending a training session.

He waited for the swimmers to get out and then held his hand up to take photos of the naked girl, who screamed in horror when she spotted his phone.

&Police found two other sets of photos on the phone, dating back to August and October 2019. One, which showed a teenage girl, had been retained. Another with a middle-aged woman had been deleted.^

www.northdevongazette.co.uk/news/peeping-tom-left-girl-swimmer-scared-changing-room-7988374

Take-away points:

This man had been doing it repeatedly without being noticed. How many men are finding it just as easy to slide a smart phone over a partition?

When he did get caught, how many of you heard about it? It's just an item in a local paper, not national news. How many other incidents like it are there?

I’m sure there was a thread on here asking for examples where twits had brought in unisex loos and the people pushing for it ended up being a wrong ‘un and/or the loos mysteriously reverted back to single sex after some time.

@redapplewreath

Ooh is privacy, dignity and inclusion for female people becoming a marketable commodity?

(I'm going to reply in Upper case. Please don't think I am shouting) THE PEOPLE WHO CAME UP WITH THIS IDEA, WILL BE MEN WHO HAVE NEVER LEFT CHESHIRE. THEY LACK MATURITY. THEY LACK EMPATHY. THEY LACK INTELLIGENCE AND THEY HAVE ZERO MORALS, SO THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS "WELCOME TO CHESHIRE - HOME OF THE HANDFORTH PARISH COUNCIL". THE MEN WHO CREATED THIS PROBLEM FOR WOMEN, ARE YOUNGER VERSIONS OF THOSE TYPES.

No one including the staff working there really know if there have been any assaults or voyeur attacks.
WHEN I SPOKE TO THE STAFF AT POYNTON, THEY HAD DIFFERENT OPINIONS. A YOUNGER MALE STAFF MEMBER WAS PERFECTLY AWARE THAT ATTACKS ON WOMEN AND CHILDREN COULD HAPPEN. A FEMALE STAFF MEMBER STAYED OUT OF THE DISCUSSION. ANOTHER MALE STAFF MEMBER WAS ALL FOR UNISEX PROVISION, BECAUSE THEN HE COULD TAKE HIS CHILDREN SWIMMING AND SUPERVISE THEM AS THEY GOT CHANGED.

MY MAIN CONCERN IS THAT STAFF MEMBERS HAVE NOT BEEN TRAINED TO DEAL WITH SEXUAL PREDATORS, AND SO THEY ARE BEING PLACED IN AN IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION. AT POYNTON, I DON'T THINK THAT THE STAFF REALLY UNDERSTAND THE DANGER THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH. OBVIOUSLY THE PEOPLE FURTHER UP THE LADDER WHO SAID "YES" TO THIS, DON'T CARE ABOUT THE STAFF ENOUGH TO TRAIN THEM. PRESUMABLY THEY DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM.

Bearing in mind some voyeurs get away unnoticed, not all women report what happens to them (and are surrounded with people telling them it didn't happen and it doesn't matter), its often her word against his, and even fully evidenced rapes end in less than 1% of prosecution. So that one doesn't really fly.

THE PREDATORS KNOW THEY WILL GET AWAY WITH IT. THAT IS WHY THEY LET EACH OTHER KNOW WHERE THE IDIOTS HAVE PUT IN UNISEX FACILITIES.

There will be women with autism, with trauma, with situations they will not choose to disclose, who will just stop going: an equality impact assessment should point out how many customers they stand to lose.

THE SAD THING IS THAT THIS FACT WILL NOT CHANGE THE MIND OF THE SELFISH IDIOTS WHO ARE BEHIND THE EXPANSION OF POYNTON LEISURE CENTRE WITH THE DANGEROUS UNISEX CHANGING ROOMS. THEY SIMPLY DO NOT CARE IF WOMEN AND CHILDREN DO NOT FEEL SAFE THERE ANYMORE. BUT THEY MIGHT CARE IF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LINED UP TO INSURE THE FACILITY, SUBSEQUENTLY REFUSE TO BE INVOLVED WITH THIS TICKING TIME BOMB.

Also worth checking through MN on leisure centre mixed changing as I've seen many times the comment of women that it takes a staff member constantly patrolling to manage the inappropriate behaviour of male users.

I DON'T THINK THAT THE STAFF ARE REALLY AWARE OF THE PROBLEM. THE MALE STAFF MEMBER WHO WAS ALL FOR UNISEX FACILITIES, WAS NOT THINKING OF FEMALE SAFETY IN GENERAL. HE WAS THINKING OF HIS OWN EXPERIENCES AND NEEDS. IT TAKES ALOT OF TRAINING TO DEAL WITH PREDATORY MALES IN A UNISEX ENVIRONMENT, BUT WHO WILL ENSURE THAT THE STAFF TAKE TRAINING. THOSE WHO ARE SUPPORTING THE UNISEX CHANGING FACILITIES AT POYNTON ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE OR ADULT ENOUGH TO FACE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS.

I suspect what you'll hear is it's cheaper, gets around being shouted at, and its only some female people excluded so what the hell.

EXACTLY.

No one including the staff working there really know if there have been any assaults or voyeur attacks. Bearing in mind some voyeurs get away unnoticed, not all women report what happens to them (and are surrounded with people telling them it didn't happen and it doesn't matter), its often her word against his, and even fully evidenced rapes end in less than 1% of prosecution. So that one doesn't really fly.

There will be women with autism, with trauma, with situations they will not choose to disclose, who will just stop going: an equality impact assessment should point out how many customers they stand to lose. Also worth checking through MN on leisure centre mixed changing as I've seen many times the comment of women that it takes a staff member constantly patrolling to manage the inappropriate behaviour of male users.

I suspect what you'll hear is it's cheaper, gets around being shouted at, and its only some female people excluded so what the hell.

My local leisure centre has unisex changing, they are individual lockable cubicles, and they're perfectly safe and fine. They open directly onto the gym/pool so no one could be perving over or under the doors without being fully visible to staff and passersby. They're far safer than the previous single-sex communal changing because everyone has their own locked door and the supervision is much better.

Surely you should at least ascertain what the layout of these facilities is going to be before you start writing complaints? If your concerns turn out to be baseless, you'll just undermine your credibility, and if it turns out you do have some reason for concern, at least you can make more targeted points.

It is awful, and to be fair Hazel Grove have had that set up for many years so its not related to the inclusion issues we've seen for the last few years. But it is awful none the less.

I didn't even know there were single sex changing facilities until I joined on a membership. I'd been using the uni sex facilities for years on a pay as you go.

It's a shame Poynton is going the same way. There's more money in Poynton obviously so maybe the loss of those customers might provide enough wellie?

@KittenKong

I’m sure there was a thread on here asking for examples where twits had brought in unisex loos and the people pushing for it ended up being a wrong ‘un and/or the loos mysteriously reverted back to single sex after some time.

Good point. That is why I am trying to highlight the problem before the sociopathic little ** in charge, actually BUILD the unisex changing facilities in Poynton. The sad thing is that whomsoever said "YES" to this, does not care about women and children's safety. It is hard to get a person to suddenly care, when.... they're probably proud of not giving two hoots.

@Tish008

It is awful, and to be fair Hazel Grove have had that set up for many years so its not related to the inclusion issues we've seen for the last few years. But it is awful none the less.

I didn't even know there were single sex changing facilities until I joined on a membership. I'd been using the uni sex facilities for years on a pay as you go.

It's a shame Poynton is going the same way. There's more money in Poynton obviously so maybe the loss of those customers might provide enough wellie?

@Tish008 It hasn't happened yet. I had no idea that it had happened in Hazel Grove, Nantwich, Macclesfield and now Poynton. These people are pure evil. I am glad that you feel safe enough to use Unisex facilities.

Poynton has the money to expand the leisure centre into the fields beyond, but not the common sense to work out that Unisex changing facilities will make it unsafe for women and children.

It's all a bit "Handforth Parish council" isn't it?

Never happens. Here it is not happening in Yorkshire.

www.harrogateadvertiser.co.uk/news/harrogate-man-jailed-filming-girls-and-women-they-got-undressed-bathrooms-and-cubicles-210471

@BlueberryCheezecake

My local leisure centre has unisex changing, they are individual lockable cubicles, and they're perfectly safe and fine. They open directly onto the gym/pool so no one could be perving over or under the doors without being fully visible to staff and passersby. They're far safer than the previous single-sex communal changing because everyone has their own locked door and the supervision is much better.

Surely you should at least ascertain what the layout of these facilities is going to be before you start writing complaints? If your concerns turn out to be baseless, you'll just undermine your credibility, and if it turns out you do have some reason for concern, at least you can make more targeted points.

I would certainly like to see the layout of the facilities. I would like to know which architects are going to be used to expand the Poynton Leisure Centre,. I would REALLY like to know who is going to insure it, because this is a ticking time bomb. I would like to know who gave this idea the greenlight, in the council?

I would also like to congratulate @BlueberryCheezecake for his/her sensitivity in this matter. The victims of assault in unisex facilities must be so grateful to you.