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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sports and gender identity

19 replies

Avocadowoman · 11/07/2021 11:46

I know a number of sporting bodies allow TW to compete with/against women in sports.

Sometimes, particularly at grass roots, without any requirement other than to say ‘I am a woman’.

I think this is unsafe and unfair, but also trying to get my head around the logic.

There is plenty of evidence that men are faster/stronger than women.

If sports should be based on gender identity, then aren’t these bodies worried that there may be lots of people who are hiding their gender identity and competing in the sport that is right for their sex and wrong for their gender identity?

Or are the divisions meant to be:
Open to all biological females and to TW and
Open to all biological males and to TM?

In which case TM and TW get a choice of categories.

How is that fair?

OP posts:
BloomingTrees · 11/07/2021 11:53

It's not fair. You won't be seeing any transmen competing at top level in the men's category for a reason.

TurquoiseBaubles · 11/07/2021 11:55

Well that's how the categories are at the moment. Which explains why the transwomen going to Tokyo as competing in the women's events, while the transmen (there might be only one, I'm not sure) going to Tokyo are also competing in - wait for it - the women's events.

It's almost as though someone hasn't thought it through.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 11/07/2021 12:00

Oh they've thought it through.

Almost everyone involved in running sport has been involved for years, at many levels. They are fully aware through personal experience, education, previous jobs etc.

Why don't they know? is the wrong question.

Why are they ignoring what they know to be true? is the real question.

The answer to that will probably seem ludicrous, should we ever get to hear it!

Money?
Influence?
Misogyny?

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 11/07/2021 12:02

Its not fair. It goes against the principles of sports(wo)manship. It some cases its downright dangerous.

But we should Beeeee Kiiiinnnnnddd.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 11/07/2021 12:03

So if you identify as a child, you’ll soon be representing your county in the Under-12s. Great idea, I always wanted to do better in sports, except I couldn’t be bothered to train.

Runningupthecurtains · 11/07/2021 12:18

They feel like women and that is way more important than fairness or the safety of women. We need to put up and shut up and if a few women get paralyzed or killed and no females ever win medal or scholarships and girls stop playing sport then so be it, it's far more important that no one upsets the menz Hmm

NecessaryScene · 11/07/2021 12:21

Why are they ignoring what they know to be true? is the real question. The answer to that will probably seem ludicrous, should we ever get to hear it!

It's religious. Linda Blade was quite good on it in this interview.

So what I did is I called the CEO Paul Melia of Canadian Center for Ethics and Sport in the May of 2018, and I call him up and I say, "Paul, I'm reading your policy here. Can you please explain to me what is going on here? How you came into this conclusion that this should be correct? How this doesn't hurt women?"

And all he could tell me was "we have a value of equity, diversity and inclusion". And he just kept he just kept spewing that out like "inshallah".

And I just kept saying, "But Paul, like, stop." I said, "Stop. Don't you understand that if you include a male body in a woman's sport, you're exclusive, not inclusive. You exclude. Don't you understand? It's not safe, it's not equitable, it's not diverse, you're actually making sure that sport is only male. How are you... What are you even saying?"

"No, we believe in equity, diversity, inclusion"

He wouldn't argue with me, he just kept throwing this thing at me, and so I finally just said, so here I said, "Okay. Paul, I know I'm not getting through to you. But I just need to know one more thing before I hang up. Is this actually the law in Canda?" Because I really didn't know. I said, "Is this actually the law, like, that sport bodies like my association have to literally abide by this by law, or is this just your strong recommendation? Please explain that to me".

And he said, "Well, it's not the law yet".

So when he said "not the law yet" a panic happened to me.

Avocadowoman · 11/07/2021 12:29

But they don’t (as far as I know) check that all XX people in the women’s competition feel like women.

I mean, I cynically presume it is because if they felt like men, it doesn’t make them run faster, so it doesn’t disadvantage any men if women who feel like men run in the women’s competition. Or if men who feel like women continue to run in the men’s.

But either you have coherent categories or you don’t.

And if you categories are ‘biological plus a choice if you feel like the other sex’ that is clearly unfair.

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 11/07/2021 12:34

That would make sense. The new opiate of the masses us hallucigenic!

Helleofabore · 11/07/2021 12:37

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

So if you identify as a child, you’ll soon be representing your county in the Under-12s. Great idea, I always wanted to do better in sports, except I couldn’t be bothered to train.
Even better. As a fit 20 something at the top of your game you could identify as older and earn the title of ‘Master’.

Superb isn’t it?

joolzfromyork · 11/07/2021 15:41

It isn't fair, and it isn't right

(and my god, this subject has been done to death on MN)

it shouldn't happen, but it will.

I have fingers crossed that laurel hubbard will be roundly booed every time she goes out to lift (everytime!) and if she cheats her way to a medal, lets hope the boos are even louder.

Make it clear that all right thinking people are against this happening ...

The medals should be held up as a sign of a cheat and not celebrated in any way.

Everyone, not just GC Women, has a role to play in that ...

lets hope (and play our part in that process)

Runningupthecurtains · 11/07/2021 17:41

@Joolzfromyork
There aren't going to be spectators at the games so no-one to boo unfortunately. I will do so from home but the IOC won't hear me.

joolzfromyork · 11/07/2021 17:53

@Runningupthecurtains

No, I get that ... but there are at the local Tennis club, and the golf club, and the Bowls club (sorry - I'm very old Smile) and the local running club or weightlifting club or Local Gyms or Martial Arts clubs or swimming baths ... or ... or ... etc

so Post on MN if you must (Generic you ...) but protest elsewhere (loudly if you can, quietly if you can't)

These people (Trans 'Athletes') who look to invade the arena of women's sport are cheats ... simple as that ... cheats

Disclaimer : I am a Transsexual Woman and I am appalled at what some trans people are doing.

Runningupthecurtains · 11/07/2021 18:00

Joolz I will continue to stand up for women's sport at every opportunity. It's just a shame that no one will have the chance to shout the the emperor has no clothes in the venue.

Percyprod · 11/07/2021 18:05

Could someone please explain how a man can become a woman. Anyone?

joolzfromyork · 11/07/2021 18:24

@Percyprod

No idea chuck ... wanna enlighten us?

Helleofabore · 13/07/2021 17:46

I am just popping this link here.

thecritic.co.uk/every-sport-is-male-sport/

Might be interesting reading.

QuinnMovesOn · 13/07/2021 17:59

@Helleofabore, thanks for posting the article

Runningupthecurtains · 14/07/2021 09:14

OMG how have missed the charming delight that is Lauren Jeska up until now? Do be kind or I'll stab you in the neck. How very ladylike. When will this end? How can anyone think this is anything other than utter ridiculous?

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