Scottish Government hiding GRA Consultation results

[MiladyBerserko]

The Scottish Government conducted a Consultation which finished in March 2020, where they asked for responses to proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act. They said these responses would be published. Now it seems, they are refusing to publish them and also, refuse to respond to FOI requests about it.

See this tweet which shows that the responses to another Consultation re. women's representation on public boards were largely concerned about the redefinition of the word 'women' and its impact on the legal rights of women and girls. This also appears not to have been published, although I need confirmation on this.

mobile.twitter.com/painteyhands/status/1413219892652875780

Questions:
Why is the Scottish Government backtracking on its promise to publish the GRA consultation?

How much did it cost to conduct a Consultation which they are now choosing to ignore?

Why are they permitted to ignore the results of a public consultation?

Am I naive to think they should be held to account?

Women and Girls in Scotland appear to be taking this forward. Good luck to them and I will be supporting them.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the government funded Trans rights groups in Scotland were allowed to see the Consultation responses and veto them.

Milady was that the first one or the second one? Which news organisation will pick this up? Meanwhile I don’t know what has happened to the English one, where we could see the bias from the start , but at least we could read some of the responses. What the hell is the point of consultation if you have already made your policy and are not prepared to look misogyny in the face?

KimikosNightmare
I'd be far more interested in your knowledge than your derision. Please share your thoughts.

Well there’s a surprise. Hopefully the press will pick this up.

The vast majority of consultation respondents were individuals and highlighted their concerns regarding the definition of ‘woman’ and the use of the term ‘gender’ in the Act and the draft regulations.

The public is giving the wrong form and sort of responses and engaging the wrong way with government consultations? This so strongly puts me in mind of this:

When Mitch Kapor articulated the principle that "architecture is politics" at the founding of EFF, he was charging technologists with the moral duty to contemplate the kinds of social interactions their technological decisions would facilitate – and prohibit.

At question was nothing less than the character of the networked society. Would the vast, pluripotent, general purpose, interconnected network serve as a glorified video-on-demand service, the world's greatest pornography distribution system, a giant high-tech mall?

Or could it be a public square, and if so, who would have the loudest voices in that square, who would be excluded from it, who will set its rules, and how will they be enforced?

pluralistic.net/2021/07/03/beautiful-symmetry/#fibrous-growth

I've a strong sense of just whom SG permits to be heard within the public square, who is excluded, who is setting the rules and how they're enforced - even when such actions aren't in line with most citizens understanding of transparency, accountability, or democracy.

Where are the checks and balances here?

What the hell is the point of consultation if you have already made your policy

It's not acceptable for a consultation to be a fait accompli, that is set out in the Gunning Principles:

https://www.bangthetable.com/blog/gunning-principles/

Just in case you didn’t already know, in the UK, public bodies can’t just go ahead and make unfair or irrational decisions without possible comeback. Rather, they can be taken to court by the public and their representatives and held to account by the Judiciary. The Gunning Principles are the founding legal principles applicable to public consultation in the UK. They were first laid down in 1985 by Mr Stephen Sedley QCC^ and have stood the test of time in successive court judgements, making them applicable to all public consultations that take place in the UK.
They consist of four principles, which if followed, are designed to make consultation fair and lawful:

Gunning 1 – Consultation must be at a time when proposals are still at a formative stage

Gunning 2 – Sufficient reasons must be put forward for any proposal to permit “intelligent consideration” and response

Gunning 3 – Adequate time is given for consideration and response

Gunning 4 – The product of consultation is conscientiously taken into account by the decision maker(s)

Put simply, these criteria are a “prescription for fairness” and mean that a public body must: consult before they have made up their mind (albeit that an open mind is not an empty mind); provide people with the right kind of information for them to be able to take part in the consultation; give people enough time to participate and respond; and, give consultation responses conscientious consideration.

When I was younger, I ended up essentially running a public consultation for a locally controversial issue, and I ensured it complied with these principles despite pushback from people who wanted to force their agenda.

Thevenerableswede
If you see the link Itsfine posted, they are openly acknowledging that women were concerned but it wasn't deemed relevant.

But the last one was supposed to be published. I think there was some excuse re. Covid, however the Hate Crime bill was pushed through and Scotgov have announced that they are moving forward with GRA reform but no further mention of the GRA consultation. Hoping for a LaLaLa-didnthappen moment perhaps.

There was a FOI by Women and Girls in Scotland but it was refused.

Interesting Ereshkigalangcleg
So they need to be challenged on this basis?

I think so, yes.

Because they can do what they fucking like - people vote for them in their droves because independence over everything else and they use this power to push their own twisted agenda through every time. It’s a one party state here.

I hope Joanna Cherry and/or others in the are all over this.

@MiladyBerserko

KimikosNightmare I'd be far more interested in your knowledge than your derision. Please share your thoughts.

I really can't be bothered. The Scottish Government has been ignored public consultations since its inception.

Some of you probably voted SNP- hell mend you.

@MaMelon

Because they can do what they fucking like - people vote for them in their droves because independence over everything else and they use this power to push their own twisted agenda through every time. It’s a one party state here.

I hope Joanna Cherry and/or others in the are all over this.

Indeed. And I'm sure there are feminists on here who enthusiastically voted for the SNP. Tough luck.

What the hell is the point of consultation if you have already made your policy

Do you live in Scotland? This is nothing new.

The SNP have already destroyed freedom of speech with their hate crime bill. (Except for misogyny- you can still hate women, of course).
Why would they hesitate to ignore public opinion or women’s rights? They are well on the way to becoming a single party police state- and we all know where that leads.

The irony is that the SNP have more to lose than any other party if independence went ahead.
The Tories would be hard to beat in England and Wales, and people would no longer reluctantly vote SNP as a means to an end, so more rational and democratic parties would come to the fore in Scotland.

That might be true Babdoc but I'm not ready to capitulate and get run over by them.

The vast majority of consultation respondents were individuals and highlighted their concerns regarding the definition of ‘woman’ and the use of the term ‘gender’ in the Act and the draft regulations. This concern was repeated in most sections of the consultation despite the fact that it was not relevant to the questions being asked as the definition is part of the Act and not in the regulations.

The bit I have bolded is the part that shocks me the most. The vast majority of respondents to a consultation express the same concerns but there is no attempt to explore this further or to take into account these concerns because it doesn't fit their narrative. I do wonder if this would happen with a consultation conducted regarding other protected characteristics?

To accede to the approach suggested by these respondents would directly contradict Scottish Government policy to ensure inclusion and equality for trans people.

The Scottish Government were censured during a legal challenge due to their claim that the Scottish Government believe TWAW, without having expressed this as a public policy or done any kind of consultation with the public. I don't think they want to come and out publicly say this because they know full well the majority of the public do not believe this.

The Scottish Government were censured during a legal challenge due to their claim that the Scottish Government believe TWAW, without having expressed this as a public policy or done any kind of consultation with the public. I don't think they want to come and out publicly say this because they know full well the majority of the public do not believe this

Interestingly...

"In particular, there are no pieces of correspondence, records of meetings, notes of telephone calls, emails, or other information beyond the information attached, in relation to the adoption of this ‘policy, intention, goal or view’ [IE TWAW] in respect of the Scottish Cabinet. This is a formal notice under section 17(1) (Information not held) of FOISA that the Scottish Government does not have some of the information you have requested because it does not exist."

"However, it is the view of the Scottish Government that trans women are women, and should be treated as such unless there is a legal requirement to treat them otherwise"
www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202100187801/

@HeddaAga

When did Scotland decide not to represent the needs of half its population and why? Authoritarian zealots captured by a vocal minority.

Ha ha!! That's the SNP all over. They ignore the wishes of the majority to pursue their narrow interests in everything. They'd prefer Scotland to be a dictatorship.

I know Wait and I think that the general public would be appalled and opposed to this, even I think, many who have previously voted SNP or supported independence.

The SNP show an utter contempt for the public's feedback and total disregard for women.

This the Women and Girls in Scotland tweet.

This was the group that did the excellent survey on the effect of Self ID on women a couple of years ago, will try to find it.

mobile.twitter.com/WG_Scotland/status/1413067908310343683

@AnyOldPrion

Why is the Scottish Government backtracking on its promise to publish the GRA consultation?

Presumably because the majority of the responses were against self-ID. They likely assumed that public opinion would be in favour, and they thought they could then publish proof that they were in step with what their constituents wanted. To their horror, they discovered that the majority are both against self-ID, and also able to give strong and coherent arguments as to why it would be deeply problematic.

They can’t publish them AND push on regardless, so they’ve chosen to backtrack.

I hope the press take this up and hold them to account.

Seems unlikely given the overwhelming number of responses to the England & Wales consultation were in favour of self-id. It's unlikely Scotland is significantly out of step with the rest of the UK; if anything they're likely to lean more progressive

In which case one would have thought they’d have been only too keen to show how much more progressive they are than the English