New women's book shop

[ChristinaXYZ]

Rare Birds Books have announced they will be opening as a bookshop in Edinburgh selling new books. The tweet says they will be "entirely dedicated to women's writing" but in answer to the inevitable, 'Will you be trans inclusive? Would appreciate an explicit statement on this!' they say, 'Yes, definitely!'.

Whilst this is neither a 'rights aren't pie' moment as presumably they will stock thousands of books so there should be plenty of room for all. It is also not a safe-guarding issue like single sex spaces often are. So why am I bothered I am asking myself?

It think the crux is these two questions that I would ask them on twitter if I was not on there under my work/real name:

1. Will this mean including transwomen, or transmen or both. Because, 'transmen are men', no? What will you be doing about writers who lived very much like a man and you may call trans now, important writers like Radcliffe Hall. Will RH be excluded? If not, is that not transphobic?

2. Will you stock the works of brave crusaders for women's rights (might wait for a hopeful 'yes' on that before continuing) like Selina Todd, Kathleen Stock, Helen Joyce, Jane Harris, JK Rowling, etc?

And finally - I think in the end the whole thing is disputable - a mis-described trade.

If anyone on twitter does tax them over it, I would love to see the responses.

twitter.com/rarebirdsbooks/status/1412477317176336387

Sad news. I’l keep my money for causes that support women.

I think the market for hypersensitive woke bookshops is fairly saturated in Edinburgh.

While I fully understand your position ChristinaXYZ if they were to dare to insist on women only stock, their business would be targeted relentlessly by the mob. They're a new small business and they'd be harassed, threatened with violence and intimidation, picketed and all the things that happen to women these days who dare to speak truthfully.

It's miserable and depressing but I understand their position - unless they refuse to stock work by women who speak the truth about all this. Then I'd ignore them.

I understand @MrsOvertonsWindow though if they were at all sensitive to the situation they would not open such a bookshop at the moment if they were either gender critical or open at least to the issue without being prepared to be belligerent about your views. I can only assume that their views, probably highly inconsistently applied (because it is a rabbit's hole of a mess), are very woke, or they would not have strayed into such a controversial area.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I think the market for hypersensitive woke bookshops is fairly saturated in Edinburgh.

This. 😬

Anyway it's their business. Their choice.

I would rather support a bookshop that was unashamedly by women and for women. Not the dick pandering types.

People are free to open whatever kind of bookshop they like. As long as the gender zealots wind their necks in when GC / pro-women businesses are opened up as well.

If the gender zealots are sooooo sure that they are on the right side of history, then they don't need to harass and intimidate GC businesses and their customers into closing down. Surely it will happen eventually as everyone rushes to the dick pandering ones. I suspect deep in their rainbow glitter hearts the gender zealots know this isn't the case.

Anything that appears to be for women is going to get asked that question pretty quickly. It's a test.

If you're fully on board with the whole thing then great, you passed the test.

If you've not really thought about it (where have you been?) you might say "yes of course" and hope that calls off the mob and you can quietly get on with things.

It would take big swinging ovaries to answer "no" to that question as you'd unleash all sorts upon your business.

I would think it best not to engage with those sorts of questions, though it's inevitable one of them'll come into the shop and ask in person.

They absolutely have the right to open any kind of (legal) shop they like and booksellers can stock what they want but why can't they say they stock books by women and transwomen or women and gender theorists, or women, gender theorists and transwomen.

Otherwise a bookshop, which still has gravitas attached as a concept, is pushing a meaning of the word woman that many don't accept. Many of us are fighting for a better use of the word woman and I don't think this shop is a little thing.

I also think that though I have sympathy with any small business person not wanting to stir the mob that you can't, you really can't start a women's bookshop and not know this, which means they don't give a proverbial about the word woman. We know it is a few small steps from that to transwomen in woman's loos, prisons and doing 'single sex' personal care. And I hope someone in a position to do so safely flaming well tells them. They have no right to expect people not to be cross, politely cross, but cross.

Are there many women authors who identify as men or claim a non-binary identity? I have someone at the back of my mind but I cannot pin them down.

Would be lovely if the book shop stocked women authors of al stripes, including those who choose to disassociate from their sex.

Someone has asked whether they'll stock books by transmen and GC feminists.
twitter.com/womenspeakscot1/status/1412819708349386760

And note, they haven't come back enthusiastically about that yet...

but why can't they say they stock books by women and transwomen or women and gender theorists, or women, gender theorists and transwomen.

You're not allowed to distinguish between women and transwomen in the gender identity religion. It's heresy.

pushing a meaning of the word woman that many don't accept

Well that's the plan.

Another liberal feminist bookshop for Edinburgh?

How many can the city support? Maybe they should try Glasgow, instead.

So, they are not a women only bookshop really. They will include male writers (just not admit they are male writers) and possibly exclude some female writers. They will not confirm if they will include women writers who are deemed problematic for this men's right's movement.

This is where you judge someone by what they do, not what they pretend say they are doing. Deeds, not words.

@Cailleach1

So, they are not a women only bookshop really. They will include male writers (just not admit they are male writers) and possibly exclude some female writers. They will not confirm if they will include women writers who are deemed problematic for this men's right's movement.

This is where you judge someone by what they do, not what they pretend say they are doing. Deeds, not words.

Absolutely! Thank you!

As I say they can run any business they like under any remit they like but we can still say we see what they are doing out loud.

I like this I've just seen on twitter - it is 'for want of a shoe the horse was lost' for the gender issue.

twitter.com/Aja02537920/status/1392741656710062083

A key target customer base for this shop will likely be the University of Edinburgh (say no more), their staff and students. They'd be alienating that market should they respond to that question in the negative (notwithstanding they'll alienate would be GC customers by an affirmative response). Or, in other words, it's a lose-lose for women at the moment.

It's so tedious that something as innocuous as a book store for women (remembering all the good work done to reclaim forgotten women writers, as happened in the 80s with the Virago and Persephone presses), should now be embroiled in these endless identity politics.

I totally see where the analogy 'for the want of the shoe the horse was lost' is coming from. These things start incrementally and encroach. On the other hand, should women refrain from opening businesses such as this if they're unwilling to stick their heads over the parapet over the incendiary issue of identity politics? I don't believe that's the answer either. I don't do this in my workplace, for the simple reason that I'd be fired by my extremely Stonewall-inhibited workplace. and I know a lot of women on these boards are in a similar position. If these booksellers are wrong, then we are wrong too.

FWIW, I refuse to patronise 'The Second Shelf' because I don't accept having 'TWAW' dinged in my ears when undergoing the usually pleasant activity of browsing bookshelves.

I've never seen so divisive a 'feminist' debate (nor, for that matter, one which centres men) in my lifetime. There are a lot of hills to die on with this particular issue. I personally wouldn't choose to perish on this one.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I completely agree re the divisiveness of this issue. I do wonder, though, what would happen if the bookstore came out as unashamedly pro-women. As well as Edinburgh University there's a thriving GC scene in Edinburgh. Seems like quite a few secret dissidents even at Edinburgh University as well - quite a few of the contributions on this website are from there. www.gcacademianetwork.org

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

A key target customer base for this shop will likely be the University of Edinburgh (say no more), their staff and students. They'd be alienating that market should they respond to that question in the negative (notwithstanding they'll alienate would be GC customers by an affirmative response). Or, in other words, it's a lose-lose for women at the moment.

It's so tedious that something as innocuous as a book store for women (remembering all the good work done to reclaim forgotten women writers, as happened in the 80s with the Virago and Persephone presses), should now be embroiled in these endless identity politics.

I totally see where the analogy 'for the want of the shoe the horse was lost' is coming from. These things start incrementally and encroach. On the other hand, should women refrain from opening businesses such as this if they're unwilling to stick their heads over the parapet over the incendiary issue of identity politics? I don't believe that's the answer either. I don't do this in my workplace, for the simple reason that I'd be fired by my extremely Stonewall-inhibited workplace. and I know a lot of women on these boards are in a similar position. If these booksellers are wrong, then we are wrong too.

FWIW, I refuse to patronise 'The Second Shelf' because I don't accept having 'TWAW' dinged in my ears when undergoing the usually pleasant activity of browsing bookshelves.

I've never seen so divisive a 'feminist' debate (nor, for that matter, one which centres men) in my lifetime. There are a lot of hills to die on with this particular issue. I personally wouldn't choose to perish on this one.

I won't buy from The Second Shelf either for exactly the same reason.

For the record, Abebooks (online US bookseller) are brilliant for out of print works and even First Editions. I use them often.

Plenty of Abebooks sellers are UK based. Agree they are brilliant. Centralised billing system, just register and they handle the sale for you every time, like Amazon.

Although to add, when I have bought from US sellers they are so polite! Fab customer service.

I have a long standing plan to open a book shop in Edinburgh, writing only by women, for women and about women. Been looking for premises for a while now and no it won’t be “ inclusive “ !

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Another liberal feminist bookshop for Edinburgh?

How many can the city support? Maybe they should try Glasgow, instead.

Where are the others?

Looks like they are only stocking fiction.

I'd be glad to see that shop, Rhannion. And I have money to burn on exactly that sort of thing. Will you post on here to let us know when it opens?