Nationwide

[cariadlet]

I've just been onto the Nationwide website to download a copy of my latest bank statement. When I was ready to log off, a customer survey popped up so I thought that I might as well complete it. At the end were a few questions about age etc. Plus a question asking me what gender I identified as. Nothing about my sex.

A few months ago, I wouldn't have even thought about this. A few weeks ago, I'd have been irritated. But now, I've been following the issue on MN enough to want to call them out on it. There was a link included so I thought that I might as well send an email.

Here's what I wrote, in case anyone's interested:

"Following a visit to my nationwide online account, I was asked to complete a survey which I was happy to do.

However, I’m very unhappy with one of the questions which was used to analyse the demographic of respondents. The question asked me with which gender I identify but there wasn’t a question which asked for my sex. I’m a woman. That is a scientific, biological fact. I don’t identify as a woman; I am a woman.

I am quite happy for surveys to include supplementary questions about gender as some people feel that their gender identity doesn’t correspond to their biological sex. However, such questions should be supplementary ones; they shouldn’t replace questions about customers’ sex."

I'm quite looking forward to seeing whether - and how - they reply

Thank you for taking the time to do that.

Thank you so much for doing this cariadlet. So many of these organisations mindlessly jump on the gender identity bandwagon without putting in any thought as to what info they actually need to ask customers and why - what purpose does it serve etc. If they start getting pushback and complaints from people then you hope it will start to make them reassess how they design these kinds of forms.

I feel the same way about these things.
Mother Pukka posted an important survey from the TUC on Instagram about childcare costs and covering summer holidays this week, I'd completed about 20 questions in detail and then sacked it off when they asked how I identified. I just wasn't in the mood. I should've done what you did for the greater good but my patience is shot

I got a reply today but it was pretty useless. I think my comment went in one ear and out the other:

"Thank you for your feedback.

The question around gender/sex is a complex one and trying to meet the needs of different beliefs and attitudes is difficult without causing confusion or offense."

Complex!

Two questions:
What is your sex
Male
Female
Prefer not to say

What is your gender
Man
Woman
Non binary
Prefer not to say
None

Nothing complex about it * apart from which sexed terms to use to describe gender

I just checked with my DD who has applied for a mortgage through Nationwide - they were asked what their sex was on the application.

Funny how they try so hard to include so many minority groups yet just like M & S, have no problem in excluding and pissing off their women customers isn't it?
Eyes up Nationwide bank account......

@TheSlayer

Two questions: What is your sex Male Female Prefer not to say

What is your gender
Man
Woman
Non binary
Prefer not to say
None

Nothing complex about it * apart from which sexed terms to use to describe gender

That doesn’t work for me. A man is an adult human male. A woman is an adult human female. I think it’d have to be:

What is your gender?
Feminine
Masculine
Non binary
Prefer not to say

Most people would think that was a ridiculous thing for any organisation to ask, and it is. I can’t see any reason for asking about “gender” at all.

Thank you, OP. I was binning these surveys, I will start responding from now on.

Yeah, that's why I would tick none!

I've got a Nationwide account, I'll look out for that. Another way of making your views known is unsubscribing to emails and filling in the little "why do you no longer want these emails" box.

I like to wander through twitter so see what companies are up to in twitterland...

I've just done another one. Every year, primary school children are encouraged to take part in the Summer Reading Challenge. This year, I've had an email about the Teacher's Reading Challenge, run by The Reading Agency.

This time, not only was there a question about gender and none about sex, the actual gender question was even more useless. The options were male, female or trans. What use would categorising respondents as "trans" be? You wouldn't even know if someone was a woman who identified as male or a man who identified as female.

At least my email was quicker to write this time - I just had to copy and paste my last one and tweak it slightly. I wonder if this time, the reading skills of whoever receives my email will be any better than the useless bloke from Nationwide.

@Soontobe60

I just checked with my DD who has applied for a mortgage through Nationwide - they were asked what their sex was on the application.

Odd how they defer to actuarial tables and sex when they are keen to apply differentials.

I've just been on their website - it gets worse. They think that Mermaids are an ok organisation for guest speakers:

...a host of virtual activities including ... an LGBTQ+ quiz hosted by our resident drag queen,...

Raising awareness for both the LGBTQ+ community and its allies is so important on the journey towards equality.

For Transgender Awareness Week 2020 we collaborated with our Gender Network to host an educational panel article with a mix of guest speakers including Mermaids and the LGBT Foundation. Alongside this, the network ran a week-long campaign to share the history of the awareness week, celebrate role models and promote trans issues.

Is there a bank left who have not drunk the kool-aid???

Certainly not Lloyds. Their twitter account is obviously being run by the ‘cool kids’

The question around gender/sex is a complex one and trying to meet the needs of different beliefs and attitudes is difficult without causing confusion or offense.

Although it's a bit of a useless response practically speaking, I wonder if they would have said this before mayas recent success. It acknowledges different beliefs and opinions on the issue.

Is that quoting Nationwide, @Manderleyagain?

But I'm afraid that anyone saying that the issue is complex just makes me see red.

It is not complex. There are TWO sexes. End of.

The NHS is the worst they are genuinely confused over sex and gender, surprising really 🙄

Ah well my local trust is generally fine! I’m still pleasantly surprised when I get reminders for ‘woman’ things with clear notes that clinics are women-only staffed.

This was on the notice board in the surgery though (from a woman’s charity I believe).