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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Holy fuck - my Law Society update is celebrating a 12 year old with a chest binder

25 replies

Welloff · 30/06/2021 21:28

..... www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/lgbt-lawyers/untold-pride?utm_source=dandi&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dandi_06%2f30%2f2021

Holy actual fuck

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 30/06/2021 21:44

Some day, the Law Society and many comparable bodies will try and expunge items like this from their archives rather than accept the collective leave of the senses that this represents for approving medical harm happening in plain sight with such young children.

EightiesRobot · 30/06/2021 21:48

We're facing a mental health crisis. How can people think any of this is appropriate or healthy? If half the energy that goes into policing pronouns or celebrating binders went into ending poverty or VAWG or providing decent, widespread, easily accessible mental health services we might have an actual progressive society.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 01/07/2021 00:39

Pride without a gay or lesbian role model...do they not look in the mirror and ask themselves what they hell they are doing?

NiceGerbil · 01/07/2021 02:45

'This may not have been possible without a chest binder, a topic which J thoroughly researched and briefed me on. Their first binder, from Spectrum Outfitters, was a game changer. I am incredibly grateful for this simple item which has had such a profound and positive impact on J’s confidence.'

Absolutely missing from all of this is why trans identifying females are keen to hide their breasts.

Especially when they're non binary.

Why getting implants/ hormones meaning growth are very important to so many trans identified males.

Breasts breasts breasts.

Are a big thing.

And... That's not a male view of what makes a woman/ girl AT ALL is it.

And it's definitely not true that loads of girls forever hate the attention/ change in behaviour from everyone that breasts bring.

Not a child any more. Sex object. Ogling etc. Suddenly their clothes are seen in s different way. You need to cover. Obviously men will look. Blah blah.

Boild down to tits =female.

Grim.

NiceGerbil · 01/07/2021 02:46

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

Pride without a gay or lesbian role model...do they not look in the mirror and ask themselves what they hell they are doing?
No.

Not even slightly.

WarriorN · 01/07/2021 06:45

Jeeze.

And Johnathan Wheeler

recently co-authored the latest edition of Lexis Nexis’ Guide to Child Abuse Compensation Claims (published December 2020) and is a former president of the Association of Personal Injury Lawyers.

Oh the fucking irony.

EveryoneElseDoes · 01/07/2021 07:09

Have you seen their template policy on gender identity, OP? It was recently amended (see www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-law-society-revises-policy-single-sex-spaces) but the definitions in particular are still something to behold.

One spoiler: a couple of the appearances of the word "stereotypical" are not where you might expect them to be...

StandUpStraight · 01/07/2021 07:19

“Proud mama” makes my skin crawl. It’s notable that she wants to police people’s language when her child doesn’t seem to mind. She sounds manipulative:

“I ask J if it would be ok for me to speak to these people, gently and kindly, about how I feel and to say how much it would mean to me, personally, if they would try to use their name. J says yes.“

No doubt all of this makes her feel very special. I wonder what other aspects of this ideology she has pushed onto this 12 year old girl. What do the Law Society think they’re doing, showcasing this sort of behaviour (and advertising binder companies into the bargain).

ChattyLion · 01/07/2021 08:11

Thank you for archiving. They should not be able to backtrack, this is outrageously inappropriate.

NiceGerbil · 01/07/2021 08:52

@EveryoneElseDoes

Have you seen their template policy on gender identity, OP? It was recently amended (see www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-law-society-revises-policy-single-sex-spaces) but the definitions in particular are still something to behold.

One spoiler: a couple of the appearances of the word "stereotypical" are not where you might expect them to be...

The page linked to has gone.

I looked at the template.

'Refers to biological differences that have been stereotypically grouped into male and female categories.
Some of these differences can be found within a person’s gonadal, morphologic (internal and external), chromosomal, and hormonal characteristics.
There’s no one indicator of ‘biological sex’, which is determined using a combination of these factors.'

Clymene · 01/07/2021 09:02

Proud mama is American and a big fan of performative 'allyship'

www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/lgbt-lawyers/out-to-lunch-reflections-on-trying-to-be-an-lgbtq-ally-at-work

I wonder if her daughter is in private school? 10-11 is very young to 'come out' as trans. When my son was in year 6, he told me he thought he was bisexual. Now he's a lot older, he's said he was confused because all his friends were boys and so he thought that must mean he fancied them. He didn't but he hadn't yet become sexually aware.

Is Ms Wolfe going to be clamouring for her daughter to access puberty blockers as her breasts are only going to keep growing. What's easy to hide at 12 might not be so easy to do (without damage) at 14

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 01/07/2021 09:03

Roll On Friday is still there in cache form for now: <a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2DGpO40yQjwJ:www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-law-society-revises-policy-single-sex-spaces+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2DGpO40yQjwJ:www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-law-society-revises-policy-single-sex-spaces+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 01/07/2021 10:42

archive of Roll on Friday : archive.is/utwuX

MsFogi · 01/07/2021 10:49

I think it's really important for all the GC lawyers to write to the Law Society to raise concerns about all of this!

BabycakesMatlala · 01/07/2021 10:52

Hahaha, yes, I'd clocked exactly this, OP. Binder presented as a simple easy solution, and no lesbians or gay people in the whole thing. What a load of crap.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 01/07/2021 16:35

I still can't quite get my head around this.

Healthcare services expend money trying to persuade parents and other household members not to smoke indoors where this might produce second hand harms to children.

Ditto, for not exposing children to adults who aren't sober.

In the US, paediatricians are asked to talk to parents about gun safety because that can be a substantial public health problem.

And here, we have a parent being applauded for a chest binder. I should think that if she announced she'd bought footbinding paraphenalia for her child, she'd have a tsunami of expressions of horror. Chest binding? rounds of applause

I've tried thinking this round from every angle and I can't understand what is passing for thought in the mind of the people who are supporting this.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 01/07/2021 16:39

archive version of Law Society Untold Pride : archive.is/hgasK

OldCrone · 01/07/2021 17:16

“I ask J if it would be ok for me to speak to these people, gently and kindly, about how I feel and to say how much it would mean to me, personally, if they would try to use their name. J says yes.“

Why does this matter so much to this mother? Why is it so important to her that people think that her child has changed sex?

Welloff · 01/07/2021 17:29

thank you for feeling angry it is helping me manage my own anger.

OP posts:
RadandMad · 02/07/2021 09:08

Holy crap. I just can't understand how supposedly intelligent people can be that deluded.

CroydianSlip · 02/07/2021 09:31

This is horrifying.

Does it not also raise questions about Internet and phone use in v young children? My yr 6 child doesn't have a phone, or WhatsApp, and is not unusual in her class or sports teams for that. She's not left out in anyway for not having independent social media. There is no way she would be independently communicating with school friends via the Internet without my oversight. Some children are 10 until the end of year 6.what on earth does this say about Internet use in v young children?

Why is being gay or lesbian so old news that they don't even get to feature in Pride comms any more? None of my lesbian friends in their 40s had anything like an easy ride into their career and they have lots to celebrate and offer. Why is it now not worth even mentioning?

EveryoneElseDoes · 02/07/2021 10:33

Here is the Law Society template policy and web page blurb for anyone interested: www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/topics/lgbt-lawyers/transition-and-change-to-gender-expression-template

As pointed out below, one use of "stereotypical" is within the definition offered of "biological sex": "Biological sex

Refers to biological differences that have been stereotypically grouped into male and female categories.

Some of these differences can be found within a person’s gonadal, morphologic (internal and external), chromosomal, and hormonal characteristics.

There’s no one indicator of ‘biological sex’, which is determined using a combination of these factors." (Emphasis added).

Another is within the definition of "Assigned gender/assigned sex":

"The sex assigned to a child at birth and recorded on a child’s birth certificate. Usually based uniquely on a stereotypical analysis of male or female genital appearance.
An assumption is made that the gender will match the sex assigned at birth, so much so that the assigned sex becomes the legal gender of the individual." (Emphasis added)

Given the (dictionary) definition of "stereotype" is "a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing," and given the dictionary, and widely understood, definitions of "sex", "male", and, "female", I personally think the Law Society guidance is stretching meaning and comprehension to breaking point in the above.

NiceGerbil · 02/07/2021 19:01

Hmmmmm.

This stereotypical bodies thing.

Ask the average man what a woman's body is like and he will say tits. And a penis hole that can get them pregnant and a penis hole that can't. No dick. Maybe mention curves legs. Hair might come into it.

The old 2D male view thing.

Plenty of men for ages have laughed about/ said to women they aren't 'real women' if their looks or bodies are a certain way. Small breasts. No curves. Face they think is unattractive or 'masculine'. Too tall or too strong. Not fuckable in their eyes. Not real women. Looks like a man! Is that s man! Who the fuck got her pregnant jesus. Actually might be a man!!!

And then when we get older we become pretty much invisible when out and about (yay!).

So when they say all that humph about how female is based on stereotypes, that's man thinking surely.

NiceGerbil · 02/07/2021 19:02

The law society think it's tricky to tell the difference between a cock and balls/ a vulva. In other words.

Does this run through to their sex lives? And when they look at their own bodies??!!

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