Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help me to challenge my school training please

14 replies

ValancyRedfern · 29/06/2021 20:04

I had some training this week and there are a few things I would like to challenge. The first is the start that 45% of trans identified teens have attempted suicide. I know that this was from a very small study of self selecting teens, can anyone point me in the direction of the info on this? Thanks!!

OP posts:
ValancyRedfern · 29/06/2021 20:06

Lots of other stuff to wade through as well. I'm very panicky right now as was quite honest with my form when they asked me questions such as 'what if people identified as black, do we have to respect that?' (they are black). I was shaking for the rest of the day!!! I keep thinking of Maya's ruling to calm me down.

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 29/06/2021 20:08

Who did the training? Have a look at Transgender Trend
www.transgendertrend.com/transgender-schools-guidance/
They provide factual, legally correct guidance for schools.

ValancyRedfern · 29/06/2021 20:13

I've shared all the transgender trend stuff with previous management. New management would be much less sympathetic I suspect! I want to pick out specific parts of the training and respond myself, I suspect they will dismiss transgender trend out of hand as transphobic (I know they aren't).

OP posts:
C4tintherug · 29/06/2021 20:25

I had similar a few weeks back (am a teacher). I picked out specific parts of the training and wrote a formal email with my concerns to the whole leadership team. I found the transgender trend website very useful in helping me get the wording right, eg for making single sex facilities mixed sex, misrepresenting the equalities act, lack of safeguarding towards pupils.

ValancyRedfern · 29/06/2021 20:28

Thank you that's really reassuring. Relations are not good between staff and the leadership team at the moment so I am scared now is not the time. But then I think if not now then when? I think it might have been Fair Play for Woman who had the info on the suicide stats. I can see my weekend disappearing in a flurry of research and email drafting and re-drafting!!!

OP posts:
ValancyRedfern · 29/06/2021 22:03

Thank you!

OP posts:
Manderleyagain · 29/06/2021 22:32

Just to let you know so it doesn't get you into hot water with your management team- the acpeds in the link above isn't the mainstream American pediatricians organisation, its a socially conservative group who are pro traditional family etc. I don't mean to say the info in the link is wrong (I haven't actually looked) but if you just forward the link they might give it short shrift.

Michael biggs has written on the suicide stats. Eg here, but again if they know it they won't like the source.
4thwavenow.com/tag/michael-biggs/

CharlieParley · 29/06/2021 23:16

One successful way to challenge training like this is to bring it back to safeguarding and ask how the training fits in with your existing framework of keeping children safe. Better still if you can point out how the training conflicts with either your existing framework or the law.

There is a detailed Childrens Rights Impact Analysis of guidance issued to Scottish schools by a trans rights organisation here:

secureservercdn.net/160.153.137.99/hjn.a49.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Childrens-Rights-Impact-Assessment-by-Women-and-Girls-in-Scotland.pdf

You might find useful information in there to challenge specific issues.

CharlieParley · 30/06/2021 00:18

Also, Transgendertrend analysed the Stonewall School Report 2017, where the 45% figure is from in this article:

www.transgendertrend.com/stonewall-school-report-what-does-suicide-rate-mean/

I'd just like to add, having looked into these claims previously, that these studies seem to

  • not follow the scientific methods of suicide and suicidal ideation research
  • not differentiate between suicidal ideation before, during or after transition =》 if the claim is that children must be affirmed otherwise they will try to kill themselves, it matters whether the suicide attempts happen before or after transition. There is research which suggests suicidal ideation does not decrease with transition.
  • not acknowledge that suicides amongst adolescent children are rare and almost unheard of amongst prepubescent children. When a child or a young person commits suicide in the UK, there is always an inquest. If you search the database of these inquests for cases where transgender issues played a role, last time I looked there were none (that doesn't mean there were none, it might just mean that other issues might have been more important)
  • ignore that the Tavistock itself has attempted to counter this narrative, stating in 2017 that the rate of suicidal ideation and attempts amongst its patients is in line with the rate of all children under CAHMS. I'm sure I saw a figure somewhere that they'd had one patient commit suicide out of over 5000, which does not seem to support the 45% claim.
  • not control for co-morbid health conditions (a large majority of children diagnosed with gender dysphoria also suffer a range of mental health issues), so the researchers here do not even attempt to find out if other issues might be driving the suicidal ideation, such as anorexia, depression or trauma.

Finally, if you read the School Report 2017, it's easy to note the complete lack of supporting material. There is no information about the precise wording of the questions, there is no information about the data at all. Which means there is no way to tell how representative the results are for that age group. Or even if they are accurately reported.

A previous study I had looked into was cited as evidence that 35% of people who identify as trans had attempted suicide. But the actual study had asked about self harm and suicide in the same question. So 35% had self-harmed or attempted suicide. Not the same thing as 35% had attempted suicide at all

The survey was self-selecting which tends to normally be written up as a qualitative study (the who, the what, the how, the why but crucially not the how many in general).

The report is careless in its language

More than two in five trans young people (45 per cent) have at some point attempted to take their own life

Now normally a qualitative study would say

More than two in five (45%) of the trans young people who responded said they had at some point attempted to take their own life

But Stonewall generalises as if this had been a quantitative study. These figures are simply not credible.

ValancyRedfern · 30/06/2021 05:56

Thanks Charlie Parle that is amazing! The training was for staff but I'm concerned the info may get into student materials with a risk of increasing suicidal ideation.

Safeguarding-wise, we are a girls' school so some of the single sex spaces issues are moot in terms of in school safeguarding. However girls have been told that it is a bad thing that 'there are still debates about which toilets trans people should use'. Which I am concerned is teaching them they are not entitled to boundaries with regards to single sex spaces. (obviously no mention of prisons or shelters, always the easy 'be kind' option of toilets).

OP posts:
WarriorN · 30/06/2021 06:41

There may be some useful resources here

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

WarriorN · 30/06/2021 06:41

Lots on safeguarding etc

2fallsagain · 30/06/2021 07:39

Op there is loads of resources on the ssa website (I'm part ssauk). If you want more help or support, or to talk to other teachers in your position please get in touch directly.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page