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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Article on Hubbard in Sunday Times sport 27/6/2021

38 replies

WinterIsGone · 27/06/2021 19:14

I couldn't see this article mentioned here - apologies if it's been posted already. My DH spotted it in The Sunday Times sports section today.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/debates-over-laurel-hubbards-olympic-games-inclusion-must-accept-that-she-has-earned-right-to-compete-z2c7fzcc7

I don't have a share token. Basically, it's by the chief sports writer, David Walsh, who was so critical of Lance Armstrong,

He points out that Hubbard is following the rules, which is true. To quote: "In the interim we should allow Hubbard to compete without rancour. She is painfully shy, does not do interviews and four years have passed since she addressed questions about her situation."

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FlyPassed · 27/06/2021 19:21

Hubbard is shy? Well, cry me a river!

334bu · 27/06/2021 19:21

According to a comment on his Tweet about this he seems to be a close friend Pippa York who was an elite cyclist winning King of the Mountains in the Tour de France . I haven't read the article as behind paywall.

Cabinfever10 · 27/06/2021 19:25

Boo hoo poor laurel.
Back in the real world ofcourse Hubbard is camera and interview shy cheats don't like explaining why they shouldn't have to follow FAIR rules (yes I know Hubbard is following the rules I just don't believe that they are FAIR)

PennineSpring · 27/06/2021 19:28

Ugh, I’m sick of certain male journalists sucking up to Pippa York, however I’d have expected better of David Walsh.
York is no friend of women’s sport, quite the opposite, so what their opinions have to do with Hubbard, I don’t know.
York transitioned after achieving international fame as an athlete, and York would never have achieved that success if they had been born female.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/06/2021 19:29

Oh well that makes it all ok then David!! I mean if they are shy and never give interviews clearly we should all be fine with it

Yes they are within the rules but the rules are utterly ridiculous and based on bollocks research that has since been superseded

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 27/06/2021 19:36

If I was a massive cheat, I'd be painfully shy and refuse to do interviews, too.

Wriggleon · 27/06/2021 19:53

Well the comments are certainly against him, hope they don't get deleted, I took out a times subscription because of its stance on women's rights, I hope these views don't become more widespread or I'll be cancelling and going to the telegraph or private eye

Imnobody4 · 27/06/2021 19:53

The comments are great, no one is buying it.

334bu · 27/06/2021 20:18

Any chance of a share token?

LucysSkyDiamonds · 27/06/2021 20:28

Bollocks. I was thinking over the weekend I'd be really interested to know what he thinks of all this. Guess now we do.

FemaleAndLearning · 27/06/2021 20:32

[quote PennineSpring]road.cc/content/news/269035-idea-transgender-people-are-going-take-over-womens-sport-absolutely-ridiculous[/quote]
Why does the article use transgender people when it means transgender males?

GrownUpBeans · 27/06/2021 20:45

The Times sports section today has 38 articles on men's sport, 5 articles on women's sport and one article telling women to shut up about men wanting to compete in women's sport.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 27/06/2021 20:45

Shy Hmm
The brave stunning & oh so very vulnerable angle is still paying dividends I see.

In one way he's right really - our argument/fight is with the IOC's insane misogynistic rules rather than with the individuals who cheat by following those rules.

everythingcrossed · 27/06/2021 20:48

It doesn't seem to allow a share token but here are some excerpts:

Allow me to tell of numerous conversations I’ve been having with Pippa York during endless hours on the route of the Tour de France. Pippa was born Robert Millar in Glasgow 62 years ago, the son of Bill and Mary. For the first four years everything seemed normal. The boy was sent to the local primary school and straight off, first day in the school yard, he has an epiphany.

“At a break we all went outside and there was a natural division between boys and girls. Literally a railing: on one side, boys, the girls on the other. I wanted to be with the girls, but knew that I’d be in trouble with some of the bigger boys if I did that. I’d already seen a small kid who was considered ‘wimpy’ being picked on. So I joined in with the boys and hoped I wouldn’t be noticed.”

At home, he would wait until it was safe to try on his sister’s clothes and, from the money he earned delivering newspapers, he secretly bought girls’ clothes. All the while, he yearned to be a girl and felt comfortable in girls’ clothes, only to afterwards feel guilty about a need he did not understand. Lost between who he was perceived to be and the female he wanted to be, he became obsessive about the sport of cycling.

Training for five or six hours each day, dealing with the exhaustion that followed, fixating on diet and rest — all of this left little time for anything else. The pursuit of a professional contract was not an ambition but a means of survival. The gender dysphoria was suppressed, but it could never be made to go away. The need to be female remained. I know enough now about York’s life to understand that though she is now where she wants to be, it would have been better had it happened sooner.

All the terrific success she achieved in her life as Robert Millar she would have given away if she had been able to transition as a teenager or a young athlete. The time in York’s company has had an eye-opening effect.

n considering the case for and against Hubbard’s selection for the Olympics, my first reaction is to empathise with the journey that she has endured to get to where she has. The child of a former mayor of Auckland, she was born a biological male but from an early age felt she was a female trapped in a male body. She chose weightlifting in the belief it would make her feel and look more male. It didn’t work and eventually, like York, she transitioned.

After transitioning she returned to her sport, took the medication that lowered her testosterone level to below the required level for 12 months, and complied with all the International Olympic Committee (IOC) guidelines.

Brett Favre, once a star quarterback in the NFL and now a podcaster, isn’t a fan of Hubbard’s inclusion: “It’s a man competing as a woman. . . Males cannot compete against females.”

Tracey Lambrechs once competed for New Zealand in weightlifting and she too is not enthusiastic. “I’m quite disappointed for the female athlete who will lose out on that spot,” she said. “We’re all about equality for women in sport but right now that equality is being taken away from us.

“I’ve had female weightlifters come up to me and say, ‘What do we do? This isn’t fair, what do we do?’ Unfortunately, there’s nothing we can do, because every time we voice it we get told to be quiet.”

The argument against Hubbard relates to the strength and power that she will have accumulated from 34 years living as a man. How can this be fair on biologically female rivals? Studies, mostly on non-athletes, show that the lowering of their testosterone level only partially diminishes the strength advantage enjoyed by trans women. Hubbard is not expected to win the gold medal at Tokyo, although she is a contender for silver or bronze.

Perhaps over time results will show that trans women weightlifters enjoy a significant advantage, and then it will be up to the IOC to review its guidelines. In the interim we should allow Hubbard to compete without rancour. She is painfully shy, does not do interviews and four years have passed since she addressed questions about her situation.

Admitting that she understood people’s reservations about her involvement in female sport, she said: “I am who I am. I’m not here to change the world. I just want to be me and just do what I do.”

From someone who has broken no rules, it’s not much to ask.

GNCQ · 27/06/2021 20:49

Sunlight I suppose (clutching at straws)

GNCQ · 27/06/2021 20:53

Also:
“I am who I am. I’m not here to change the world. I just want to be me and just do what I do.”

Fine. Be who you are. Do what you do. You can do all of that without shitting all over women at the Olympics.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 27/06/2021 20:54

Perhaps over time results will show that trans women weightlifters enjoy a significant advantage,
Perhaps? 🤯🤯🤯
What kind of human hasn't noticed the difference between male & female body strength?

(Thanks for the excerpt everything )

VortexofBloggery · 27/06/2021 20:58

It is too much to ask. He should not have put himself forward.

334bu · 27/06/2021 21:02

Pippa's gender dysphoria was so" bad" that they took extra testosterone , so they could win races ? ConfusedConfused( This is not an allegation as the athlete has admitted to doping because everyone else was.)

Vargas · 27/06/2021 21:02

He's basically arguing that LH didn't break any rules. The rules are wrong, not LH. So basically we should just STFU and not complain. Yet again women should just stand aside while male bodied people stomp all over our hard-won rights. David Walsh can get stuffed. I would love to see what he would say if it was his daughter/sister/wife losing out on a place to LH. So easy to 'be kind' and full of empathy when it doesn't actually affect you.

Annasgirl · 27/06/2021 21:05

I meant to post this earlier. I read this at breakfast and have been fuming about it all day.

I am fed up of men like David Walsh deciding that they can give away my rights. No man has the right to give away my rights as a woman, and I am going to fight until my last breath to uphold my hard won sex-based rights.

Annasgirl · 27/06/2021 21:06

Also, Davis has exposed so many chests over the years in sport and yet this is not cheating 😡 is it only cheating when men lose out?

allmywhat · 27/06/2021 21:07

I looked up Walsh on Wikipedia. The section under “Controversies” hints at him conforming to a very familiar pattern among ardently pro-trans/ anti-woman men.

WinterIsGone · 27/06/2021 21:18

Yes, I noticed that! Hmm

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