BBC Pride activists demand right to vet transgender news stories on Radio 4’s Today programme

[Hazycoffeek]

Apologies for the Daily Mail link but I’m glad that they are bringing sunshine to this.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9728735/BBC-Pride-activists-demand-right-vet-transgender-news-stories-Radio-4s-Today-programme.html

Members of the BBC's Pride Board, which comprises LGBT staff, want to attend commissioning meetings and play a role in 'editorial processes' on the show, according to documents seen by The Mail on Sunday.

I’ve been catching up on the whole Fortunately podcast recently and for the jokes made by Jane and Fi as well as the whole W1A, it’s clear the BBC is a very odd organisation indeed. It’s a civil service style bureaucracy but topped with celebrities, a lot of groupthink and huge egos. I would imagine JW like Nick Robinson know their worth and have finely tuned bs detectors. Today has gone off track before under Rod Liddle but current editor is v low-key which is a good thing.

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

I used to work for a big media organisation, and it was very clear that there were huge protective walls around the journalists whose job it was to write about the company itself. They had to be free of any interference so they could write as impartially about their employer as about any other company. News has to be objective and impartial. I am horrified that anyone at the BBC doesn’t seem to understand that. This is massive, massive overreach.

This seems to have bene almost completely abandoned all over the place, but it seems most crazy when it involves national broadcasters.

It's crazy, we now have journalists and editorial teams who by and large have degrees in journalism and yet they've completely forgotten the basic ethical principles and practices of journalism. They function as activists.

@Floisme

Am I seriously expected to find it reassuring that they were 'only' asking to be involved in commissioning meetings?

indeedy

we're at Ozymandias levels of pompous grandiousity. A belief that they should be able to influence commissioning for their pet cause? and a total inability to see how incredibly inappropriate that is?

yikes

Ooo global butterflies. That's a new name to me.

Who are they?
Where are they based?
What is their training program?

Lots of nice questions for proper journalists to ask and investigate and give scrutiny to, to see of licence fee payers are getting value for money, lawful advice to the bbc and whether its good quality training and whether there are conflicts of interest going on with journalistic principles.

The more we know about these secret reeducation organisations the better.

we now have journalists and editorial teams who by and large have degrees in journalism and yet they've completely forgotten the basic ethical principles and practices of journalism. They function as activists.

I'd not be confident that they are journalist or members of editorial teams rather than randoms in several non-relevant occupations. Until more is known (possibly via FOIA) the full extent of this can not be understood.

global butterflies are the ones who fielded a middle aged male to advise st paul's girl's school on dealing with young girls experiencing gender dysphoria

'cos they're totally going to get what's driving those girls to want to opt out of womanhood, innit?

good thread from Lucy Bannerman on being asked not to talk about them

twitter.com/timeslucy/status/1406185779278368771

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

global butterflies are the ones who fielded a middle aged male to advise st paul's girl's school on dealing with young girls experiencing gender dysphoria

'cos they're totally going to get what's driving those girls to want to opt out of womanhood, innit?

I always think of that Boyce interview with Ben (GNC Centric). Ben GNC Centric is a lesbian and previously identified as transgender. In this interview with Benjamin Boyce, she highlights important issues (based on her experiences) within the community when the relevance of age, sex and their attendant power asymmetries are disregarded in a frankly disturbing way that recalls Sheila Jeffreys and her work on sex castes. (Middleaged transwomen led and spoke over them at 'youth gatherings' and told them to shut up and listen because transwomen are the apex of the oppression hierarchy, and teenage transboys are somehow at the bottom.)

'Coercion & Abuse in the Gender ID Community'
14 Mar 2019
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAMar22S0ck

told them to shut up and listen because transwomen are the apex of the oppression hierarchy, and teenage transboys are somehow at the bottom

goodness, what a big surprise that some male people should want to use power to manipulate young female people

how incredibly astonishing

Brilliant, TheHandmadeTails!

We would like to pre-empt these issues by being involved in commissioning meetings. Editorial processes are in place – how do we get involved with these?

Why should this one group be consulted and no one else? Unless you think FPFW should also be invited?

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

we now have journalists and editorial teams who by and large have degrees in journalism and yet they've completely forgotten the basic ethical principles and practices of journalism. They function as activists.

I'd not be confident that they are journalist or members of editorial teams rather than randoms in several non-relevant occupations. Until more is known (possibly via FOIA) the full extent of this can not be understood.

Maybe, but most mainstream media organisations these days are mainly staffed by university grads, with journalism degrees very common.

It's quite different from a generation ago when degrees where not common among journalists and journalism school didn't exist.

But the change has happened at the same time that journalism has become much more biased and narrow. Which is interesting.

@DisgustedofManchester

If only the story underneath the headline actually matched the clickbait headline.

'We would like to pre-empt these issues by being involved in commissioning meetings. Editorial processes are in place – how do we get involved with these?'

"Demand right to vet transgender news stories" is a bit of a stretch even for the Daily Mail.

And you actually think this is any better? A lobby group demanding they be allowed to influence commissioning?

In what way is this not demanding the right to vet stories?

most mainstream media organisations these days are mainly staffed by university grads, with journalism degrees very common.

Not a great choice of link below but others were worse. My memory of this from other conversations at the time was that a lot of BBC staff are admin and support rather than those who are engaged in the journalism, IYSWIM

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/05/02/bbc-employees-revealed-to-be-clashing-over-trans-rights-in-whatsapp-groups/

BBC Diversity and inclusion advisory group:

www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2019/bbc-diversity-inclusion-advisory-group

BBC Pride network - previously claimed that they provided guidance "whenever requested": see screenshot

www.vercida.com/uk/features/bbc-pride-network?company=99

And, reading about their workstreams was interesting - particular in light of the recent revelations about Stonewall as revealed in some many FOI responses.

downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/lgbt-career-progression-and-culture-report.pdf

The interesting thing about this is the absolute aim to stop anyone at all challenging discussing questioning etc anything that's happened or is being pushed, anything at all.

The mind-blowing thing is that things from the NHS to the prisons to the BBC are listening and generally going along with it.

The things that increasing numbers of people want to talk about, I just can't see why they should be verboten. The way it's presented is that it's because it's dangerous hate speech. But it just isn't, is it. It's people trying to find ways that both everyone can find acceptable, maintain sateguarding, safety, stats etc. And try to understand what on earth it is that's being said that is so awful no one should be exposed to it.

Does anyone know what the actual rationale is for refusing to discuss this sort of thing, without heading off into dog whistle, hidden agenda, etc etc...

Why are transwomen convicts being housed in the women's estate despite the obvious risks? Transwomen are likely to be at risk in the male estate. As are other men who are vulnerable for whatever reason.

Has there been any activism around violence in the male estate more broadly?

Why were units for transwomen not considered?

Why were sports opened up first, and now women have been told to prove its not fair?

Why are the laws about toilets and changing in schools for children over age 8 being disregarded?

What words should be used to describe the female half of the population as a group?

Why are so many scary incorrect facts being spread about the danger to trans people in the UK being spread, is there concern about the impact on children and young people consuming these messages? Is anything in place to counteract this misinformation?

Why has the word lesbian been redefined? What is the correct term for lesbian now?

Just so many questions.

I would really like some honesty tbh.

Some straightforward answers.

For me personally the massive one is. What word or words are to be used when talking about the female half of the population? Instead of girls and women?

Because its simply not a demand, its a request !
Asking how to get involved in something is not a demand.

Daily Mail are just using twisted headlines as click bait.
If nobody clicks they don't get paid, so they rely on sensational headlines.

@Imasoulman if the BBC Labour Party network asked for input into commissioning on programming concerning the labour party, would you view this as an appropriate request, or a sign that perhaps things have gone a bit awry in out national broadcaster, to the point that politically motivated internal staff networks think they should have any right ro influence programming in any way?

Global Butterflies seems to consist of 4 people: two older transwomen and two gay younger men, so actually nobody who has lived experience of being born and growing up a girl or experiencing a female puberty, or managing the pressures of developing womanhood and coping with the male gaze when a teenager.

goodness, what a big surprise that some male people should want to use power to manipulate young female people

how incredibly astonishing

Boyce's intro frames it nicely when he says: In any human organisation, in any group, where there is a lapse or a lack of accountability, there will be an abuse of power…Those who are in power, whether explicitly or implicitly will end up abusing the most vulnerable people.

As Ben says, when she stepped back, she finally understood how much of what played out had been affected by male/female socialisation and just how abusive and inappropriate the power dynamic had been.

[quote JustcameoutGC]@Imasoulman if the BBC Labour Party network asked for input into commissioning on programming concerning the labour party, would you view this as an appropriate request, or a sign that perhaps things have gone a bit awry in out national broadcaster, to the point that politically motivated internal staff networks think they should have any right ro influence programming in any way?[/quote]

Of course I wouldn't, but I'm not suggesting that the BBC personal in the article should have any input either.
I certainly have not said that.
I merely pointed out that the Mail are getting carried away with their interpretation

@NewlyGranny

Global Butterflies seems to consist of 4 people: two older transwomen and two gay younger men, so actually nobody who has lived experience of being born and growing up a girl or experiencing a female puberty, or managing the pressures of developing womanhood and coping with the male gaze when a teenager.

The four people all seem to be trans. Two male and two female.

@SmokedDuck how do those Canadian libraries manage to retain their spines like that when so many British institutions just roll over and grovel?

And even worse, like the vegetarian or vegan group that "donated" to the Guardian to commission monthly articles on agriculture. Guess what they tended to be about?
The same Guardian who claims to be uniquely immune from advertiser influence?

[quote DdraigGoch]@SmokedDuck how do those Canadian libraries manage to retain their spines like that when so many British institutions just roll over and grovel?[/quote]
I don't know, Canadian institutions are actually a lot worse overall. Challenges to gender ideology in Canada are almost nonexistent and they have no media support.

Library training does really emphasise freedom of information concerns and neutrality in terms of collections. And it may be that librarians tend to now something about how important access to information is in terms of social change.

The libraries do tend to be captured in other ways. Drag queen storytimes are big, and libraries don't generally come off as being really politically neutral in terms of events they host on their own behalf.