The Guardian covers Hubbard. You'll be surprised

[bellinisurge]

The Guardian says you shouldn't conflate sex and gender and Hubbard's place in the Olympics is unfair. I know, right?

www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/jun/22/by-conflating-gender-and-sex-we-undermine-sporting-competition

Really good piece by Tanya Aldred. Doesn't Sean ingle write for the guardian - who has been taking a sensible approach to the issue too. The sports desk at the guardian seem to know what's what. I guess their readers are sport fans.

If those numpties had bothered to debate then we wouldn't have to hear common sense on this only from the right. I'd rather not hear from JHB etc . And yes, it is low hanging fruit, for the unthinking.

But to see it in the Guardian means maybe, just maybe more left (ish) voices will start to talk about it.

With sport, it's just clearly and radiantly unfair, isn't it?

There's no 'people will die', no danger to TW who'd have to compete with the men (apart from the danger of not winning); the picture speaks a thousand words.

TedImgoingmad - Thanks! I even tried googling. She was great.

Too little too late from the Guardian. They were singing a different tune when they were telling women to shut up and budge up. Wouldn't wipe my arse on that rag!

Always thought sport was the weak link in the chain - the one that people who havnt followed all the discussion would understand and would clock as unfair. And as others have said - men watch sport and it could bring some men on board to support women. I live in hope.

@Wearywithteens

It’s interesting to me that the line in the sand is sport. There have been few shits given about changing rooms, toilets, hospital wards, prisons, schools, rape centres and refuges. Vulnerable women and children being told to STFU and deal with it. But when it’s sport, suddenly the unfairness and disparity becomes glaringly obvious. I wonder if the challenge on this will translate?

Ah, but this is going to be broadcast to the whole world. You only have to look at Hubbard to see how wrong and unfair it is They're getting their slight reverse ferret in early, I think.

The Times has been good on these issues and seen sense (and Telegraph)., The Guardian until now has been very disappointing but perhaps the tide has turned.

The census court win was helpful too. I never watch sport but I can see that that could be very unfair.

@stumbledin

I think this is a bit like when they had the writer whose main job was fashion and every now and again she was allowed to write a few gender critical articles. Sorry I am so bad at names - and in fact in thinks she was eased out of her job.

ie in Guardianland sport and fashion are just side issues, in the real world of politics TWAW is still the standard.

I think it's a bit more than that now. There's Hadley Freeman who started off on the fashion desk but moved on several years ago - and who's still at the Guardian. Suzanne Moore was a regular commentary writer (not about fashion). I've never seen her say exactly what happened at the Graun but she left in grand style. There's Susannah Rustin who's a leader writer so doesn't normally get anything under her own name but who's openly gc on Twitter. Sean Ingle on the sports desk as mentioned. Now Tanya Aldred.

That's not even counting the Observer writers.

Basically I think there's a real head of steam building up now.
The Guardian is falling....

There are a few gender critical journalists at the guardian. Not many but a few. Catherine Bennett, Suzanne rustin as well as those mentioned already. It makes me wonder why Suzanne Moore was singled out for nastiness. Libby Brooks has also written on things in a straight forward way without adopting either side. Oliver burkeman is observer in think and there are more there.

That's why I was disappointed that the Games were postponed last year. Sports were always going to be the final straw because it is so simple to see the unfairness. My son has had chapter and verse for nearly 3 years and got it but he was detached. Hubbard has finally done it - now all his mates are spluttering about the unfairness too. After all it is just not cricket is it?

Sorry cross post, actually I don't know if Bennett is guardian or observer, I find that all a but confusing the way the branding works online.

No I think postponing the games has helped. Last year - in fact even a month ago, pre Maya Forstater - they might have been able to keep a lid on it. No chance now.

I'm pretty sure Catherine Bennett's at the Observer.

The weightlifting issue is so obviously unfair I'd be tempted to think it's been done on purpose to shed some light on the whole thing.

I think it's also because Olympic sport, can't be hidden away and obfuscated with nonsense language. It will be on prime time TV, pictures of Hubbard will be in all the press.

We don't see the assaults happening in prisons, in refuges. All the ways that women are disadvantaged are not generally broadcast. This will be.

It's also because Hubbard is not a Blaire White type of trans person. Men especially (and probably some women) find it easy enough to hand wave away inherent problems to women if the person is a close enough approximation of femininity.

I doubt Hubbard is who TRAs would choose as their first major representative on the Olympic world stage and certainly not in a sport like weightlifting.

Now I'd like t hear from James O'Brien, who around 2 years ago was sneering at female callers warning that this would happen. The usual from him: There have been no transgender athletes, you silly women, men aren't going to identify as women to go to the Olympics, why are you being so hysterical?

I'm pretty sure Suzanne Rustin has written a grand total of 1 article about this issue, and that was after Suzanne Moore was pushed out, last September. Hardly a vocal figure for the GC side.

I believe Susanna Rustin's interviewing Helen Joyce at a WPUK event shortly. She's expressed regret to Suzanne Moore that she didn't support her more publicly at the time. She strikes me as someone with integrity and I think she's one to watch.

This one’s got my dh saying ok that’s not fair. He doesn’t care about sport so it’s not that. Over a year ago I was telling him about the cyclist and Karen white and he was like that will never happen.
Now it is, it’s mainstream just not obscure local comps and the weightlifting is one area where it is simply impossible to argue with the physical advantage.

Doesn’t Hadley Freeman’s partner write for the sports section of the Guardian I think that they have reported these issues most fairly.

People do care about sport. Look at that football super league thing. How quick did that get cancelled? Compare that to the decriminalisation of rape. Sadly people do care about this more than Karen white. At least it is getting things discussed.

So if it is accepted that within sport trans women have male biological advantage, is this the same as acknowledging that they are still male - not actually changed their biological sex? If so, where does this leave the claims that Jess De Wahls is transphobic for saying the exact same thing?

Am reeling that I’ve just read that in the Guardian

Just when you think you’ve seen it all in this debate, the graun blind sides you with a sensible piece!

I am sure there’s been some sort of mistake and they’ll get half a dozen articles by Owen J and Zoe Williams saying how horrid women are in compensation.

The rules seem to be that you can sneak these articles in by dint of putting them in the Sport section, or by being Oliver Burkeman.

Cripes, the Guardian is vomiting up the koolaid.

I have to say I’m absolutely astonished that this article is in the Guardian. Fair, balanced and eminently sensible. I’ll gladly take it but as PP it’s only very very recently that they were aggressively pushing in the opposite direction on women’s sports, so it remains to be seen whether the wind is indeed blowing in a new direction or whether this is an token gesture whilst Maya’s victory is fresh in thr memory.