Laurel Hubbard is the beginning of the end of women’s sports

[steakandcheeseplease]

Not sure if another thread has been started on this. This really is the end. I spent ten years being a sports coach to children. I know males and females bodies are physically different and behave different in sport. This is an absolute tragedy for our young aspiring female athletes. A mediocre male weightlifter rising to the top of the womens ranks purely because of his physiology. Stealing a place that is rightly a females. This is my actual WTF moment.

[https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/laurel-hubbard-is-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-women-s-sports]

I think what I’d do if I were the 2nd/3rd placed athlete behind a presumably victorious Hubbard would be to go to the podium, get my medal, then once Hubbard has been given the gold, the 2nd placed woman gives her silver medal to the 3rd placed, the 3rd placed takes off her medal to give to the 4th placed and together they walk away and leave Hubbard alone on the podium, wearing a medal the whole world knows isn’t rightfully theirs. Bonus points if they wear T-shirts with Kuinini Manamua’s name on.

@Helleofabore Joanna Harper has lot to answer for. The evidence they presented in that study was a complete joke & the influence they have wielded in women’s athletics because of it beggars belief.

@timeisnotaline

This.

The person who wrote that tweet has had their account suspended...

@Star555

I used to admire NZ prime minister Jacinda Ardern, but not anymore... www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31684661/new-zealand-pm-jacinda-ardern-backs-transgender-weightlifter-olympic-selection

I wonder if she would still support the disgusting and scientifically unfair practice of allowing male-born transwomen in women's sports if her very own daughter were older and missed out on qualifying in her school sports teams because a male-born "woman" performed better than her. Would Jacinda console her daughter by saying "Parties here have simply followed the rules"???

As a Kiwi, it sounds like what she said was a round about way of saying that the issue is with the rules of competition. That's my local reading of the words she said, anyway.

It's a tough situation because I see very little real protest against this outside of gender critical circles. I don't know if this is censorship or that public opinion genuinely supports Hubbard but either way the general media take seems to be positive. Anyone questioning Hubbard's inclusion is being told that they are out of step with 'the science' and that male puberty conveys no advantage for trans women athletes.

It goes against everything we've ever known about women in sports and the entire basis of having a separate female category in sports. Nonetheless it seems the public at large desperately wants to give middle-aged white male-born people the chance to achieve their dreams, given the oppression they have suffered for decades at the hands of evil witches women wanting to compete only against people who share their biology. I don't understand it and how people cannot see what it blatantly staring them in the face. It's the Emperor's New Clothes effect, I imagine, people wanting to fit in and say the right thing in case they are accused of being on the dreaded 'wrong side of history'.

Here you are AngeloMysterioso. A share token for the Times article by Ross Tucker.
He's a sports scientist, is on twitter and has been doing sterling work patiently describing all the biological advantages that males have over women in most sports. He demonstrates so clearly using evidence how the misnamed 'inclusion' is demonstrably unfair to women.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9b297206-d2bc-11eb-b50d-ece47261907f?shareToken=53b31ce2ec7555a2db1e378cbb84aac6

Ahah! Here it is!

I realise the thread has moved on, but I've been trying to add this image for an hour (bloody app). So here you are, I give you the Chinese 400m womens relay team...

Just asked my dd, 3 boys and a girl she said.

I wonder if they are all still on the team. Probably all 4 are men now.

Wow. From the Times article:

Without this protected category, the biological reality is that at every single matched level — high school, club, county, Olympic Games — the best men outperform the best women by margins large enough that in a single sex category, women would disappear from that sport. For example, the 2016 Olympic 100m champion, Elaine Thompson, was outperformed by 1,826 boys and men that year, including by 14-year-olds, over-50s and Paralympic sprinters.

As an Aussie, I’m well aware Hubbard is from nz. I’ve tried to find fondofbeetles tweet to ask but couldn't. If they are generally accurate there must be some additional factors eg for female weightlifters the probability is…

Sorry, timeisnotaline I tried to find it again too but couldn't. Fondofbeetles is Dr Emma Hilton, the developmental biologist who co-wrote the study on trans women in women's sport ( Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage ). I am assuming it was a considered tweet considering the source.

This is a pretty heartbreaking article on the women who missed out. LH's inclusion is a travesty and a tragedy.

genevievegluck.substack.com/p/laurel-hubbard

Here is a whole thread on women who have missed out because biological men have taken their places twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1400344909182345216?s=21

A now retired NZ weightlifter dropped almost 20kg in 2017 in an attempt to make a lower weight class after Hubbard qualified top in her division:
www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/weightlifting-transgender-lifter-creates-tension-and-swap-in-class/6E7ED5AY2FK5KS2DOEAWHGXI74/

[quote timeisnotaline]Here is a whole thread on women who have missed out because biological men have taken their places twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1400344909182345216?s=21[/quote]
I have endeavoured to name the women and girls who have been affected here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4175263--No-Trans-Olympian-List-of-women-and-girls-disadvantaged-in-sport-resource-thread

The aim of that thread is to point out that already, due to just a handful of males in women’s and girls sports, hundreds of women and girls have already been affected. Where possible we should name these women and girls.

@TedImgoingmad

Sorry, timeisnotaline I tried to find it again too but couldn't. Fondofbeetles is Dr Emma Hilton, the developmental biologist who co-wrote the study on trans women in women's sport ( Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage ). I am assuming it was a considered tweet considering the source.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9b297206-d2bc-11eb-b50d-ece47261907f?shareToken=9b034bb7bdd55c9a6cfecf715fb83462 ?

This one?

Yes, agree, looking at this..... competitor, it would be hard to see how they won't win, so here 's hoping.

No guarantee of this as mediocre as a male athlete, now two decades older than the female weightlifters and also carrying a very serious injury. However, will still do far better than many of the female athletes simply because of a male body.

To be discussed on the Moral Maze 8pm R4 tonight.

It doesn't actually matter if Hubbard doesn't win, or doesn't even podium place. It's still unfair.

Otherwise you could say that doping is OK as long as that competitor doesn't win.

No guarantee of this as mediocre as a male athlete, now two decades older than the female weightlifters and also carrying a very serious injury.

Hubbard's not mediocre, exactly. Hubbard is world-level competitive within Hubbard's male age group.

But that's a big proviso. No male or female of Hubbard's age could possibly be world-level competitive in an all-ages category.

But by competing against females instead of males, Hubbard easily beats all females of Hubbard's age (by 45-75% margins!) and manages to be competitive against world-level young females.

@OhHolyJesus

Ahah! Here it is!

I realise the thread has moved on, but I've been trying to add this image for an hour (bloody app). So here you are, I give you the Chinese 400m womens relay team...

Jesus wept. It's just so blatant.

You can see it a mile off can't you?

I would guess that you could see it from a running gait too, it would make you look a bit closer and then you see it.

There is one female on a 4 runner team. The Chinese regulator insisted they were all 'women'.

[quote Lordamighty]@Helleofabore Joanna Harper has lot to answer for. The evidence they presented in that study was a complete joke & the influence they have wielded in women’s athletics because of it beggars belief.[/quote]
Joanne Harper is being interviewed on Women's Hour right now.