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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ofsted head: “I just want girls to be proud of being girls” woman’s hour now

22 replies

Carefulvulvadriver · 21/06/2021 10:07

Re St. Paul’s girls school.
She is talking a lot of sense.

OP posts:
WinterTrees · 21/06/2021 10:19

I get the impression she's been totally put on the spot with the St Pauls and Stonewall line of questioning from Emma Barnett. She's been invited on to talk about sexual abuse in schools I think?

It seems that WH has gone from one extreme to the other. Not acknowledging the gender debate at all for years, and now leaping on guests who are expecting to discuss something else and wanting a statement about it. It's obvious Amanda Spielman is gender critical, but she's sounding very nervous, knowing that she's been shoved without warning into a minefield here. And Emma Barnett's interview style instantly puts guests into defensive mode, which doesn't encourage thoughtful discussion.

Tangledtresses · 21/06/2021 10:23

Can't stand Emma Barnett!!

Carefulvulvadriver · 21/06/2021 10:53

Yes I agree she may well have been put on the spot, which is pretty unfair in the context of a debate where women are literally losing their livelihoods for saying the “wrong” thing (but it’s tricky: would ofsted have told her not to comment at all if the question had been forewarned? Quite likely. Now,
If people want to object to Amanda Spielman’s very reasonable responses, both she and ofsted at least have the cover of being able to say the questions were “sprung”. I fully admit however that the tenor of the (no) debate and assault on women who speak out on this means I may be being quiet naive about how much cover this would really give in practice. But we sure as hell do need more people talking about this).

Whatever the background to the line of questioning, I think Amanda Spielman did really well. I couldn’t stay tuned for the talk about sexual harassment of school girls, but I really hope the obvious links were made.

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OhHolyJesus · 21/06/2021 11:01

@Tangledtresses

Can't stand Emma Barnett!!
God neither can I!

In her book she juxtaposed a woman with a DSD condition with a woman who wanted to be a man. One wanted periods the other didn't. It was an offensive simplification and I stopped reading at that point, up until then it had been really good.

Barnett is part of the problem as far as I'm concerned.

Needmoresleep · 21/06/2021 11:03

AS is a Paulina, and sent her girls there. She knows the school well.

More reason to be cautious.

OhHolyJesus · 21/06/2021 11:03

Sorry for the derail, back to Spielman, where did she land on nudes being sent by children, this came up on another thread and I was confused as to what she said. She seemed to say it wasn't an issue but then backtracked and I'm not sure the original statement was misunderstood?

Bryonyshcmyony · 21/06/2021 11:04

I was cautiously pleased when EB took over, but she's unlistenable to. She makes every interview into a challenge, gender critical or not, and it's always really uncomfortable listening. It's WOMEN'S Hour, the interviewer should be encouraging and supporting her women guests rather than laying into them the whole time. I really hate it now and never listen.

YellowFish12 · 21/06/2021 11:05

@Tangledtresses

Can't stand Emma Barnett!!
Same. I find her interview style really confrontational.
Sillydoggy · 21/06/2021 11:26

And that stuff from EB about the poor boys! Is it unfair to single one out for punishment when they are all doing it? Of course it's fair- if you are sexually harassing girls you should be held to account no matter how common it is.

Confuzzled12345 · 21/06/2021 11:34

OMG ofsted have it right for once 🤣🤣🤣

Abitofalark · 21/06/2021 14:15

Emma Barnett sounding like an advocate for Stonewall before mentioning as a sort of afterthought that the Equality and Human Rights Commission had withdrawn from its scheme on grounds of concern about cost. She didn't though raise the question why should Stonewall be in schools at all or instructing them what language they should use for boys and girls.

I've been wondering lately what is the point of Ofsted inspections if this scandal of sexual assault and harassment of girls in schools has been allowed to get out of hand and is only now becoming known
and getting national attention. On this, I think Amanda Spielman
said that Ofsted inspections didn't specifically report it until 2017 although they did cover bullying in its various forms before that, implying it may have been included under that.

Emma Barnett once again demonstrated the misapplication of the relentless technique of asking the same question three or four times - not repeated in immediate succession but asked on three or four separate occasions. This seems to be transposed from Newsnight where arguably it may be necessary when interviewing practised politicians with something to hide or defend but it is used on Woman's Hour in a context where it isn't necessary or important, and seems antagonistic, such as asking the Scottish law student who was put under investigation, whether she regretted what she'd said (three occasions), or asking a former political adviser how she felt when sacked - that's personal, isn't it and not a vital matter of policy or public interest that requires three goes at getting an answer.

Today was another example when she asked Spielman (four separate occasions) at what age school children should be instructed about pornography and sending dodgy images. Spielman didn't want to specify an age but eventually said it should be related to when they first had phones and had access to it. However, Barnett is not creative enough to do other than hammer out the exact same question as the first time of asking rather than say putting it in a different way and asking perhaps at what stage or age range it might be done, or offering a couple of thoughts or options of her own to tease out further reflection and response from the interviewee.

She does seem to come geared up and combat ready for some interviewees as with the recent Minister for health Nadine Dorries, I think it was, whereas when Gordon Brown was on she let him run on unimpeded for a quarter of an hour promoting his international agenda for the G 7 with barely a question or challenge to any of it.

Abitofalark · 21/06/2021 14:21

Good heavens! I thought this thread was in Feminism Chat which is where I logged into, as I thought, but on exit I find it is in something called Sex and Gender Debate. I have no idea why this isn't a Feminism Chat topic. Or is it that we don't have Feminism Chat any more?

bitheby · 21/06/2021 14:22

@Abitofalark

Good heavens! I thought this thread was in Feminism Chat which is where I logged into, as I thought, but on exit I find it is in something called Sex and Gender Debate. I have no idea why this isn't a Feminism Chat topic. Or is it that we don't have Feminism Chat any more?

It's all changed today.

Needmoresleep · 21/06/2021 14:28

Abitofalark Great post.

I gave up watching Newsnight and similar BBC programmes because of their house style, which seems aimed at catching people out, rather than listening to what they have to say. The last time I watched Emily Maitlis I was yelling at the TV, begging her to stop interrupting so I could hear what her interviewee had to say.

A good interviewer should surely ask good informed question, listen to the response and then follow up. Instead it can feel like some seem to see interviews as some sort of combat sport, with interviewees divided into "good", who get a softer ride, and "bad", who get the full hairdryer. As if the BBC see their role, like the Guardian, as telling us what to think, rather than give us the information to allow us to make up our own minds.

Abitofalark · 21/06/2021 14:30

Yes. That was a shock. I hadn't noticed any pinned announcement about it.

Abitofalark · 21/06/2021 14:34

Thanks, Needmoresleep. I gave up Newsnight ages ago as well and I had bee a regular viewer for years.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 21/06/2021 14:36

Well, as was pointed out when the new board names were suggested, who can know what belongs where?

So much unecessary work for someone. So much confusion for us posters.

JulesJules · 21/06/2021 14:42

Why is this in 'Sex and Gender' when it's about Ofsted talking about girls in school?

ArabellaScott · 21/06/2021 14:43

I cannot see any logic to where threads are going, Jules. None at all. All feminism is related to sex and gender, that is literally the whole point.

Bertiebiscuit · 21/06/2021 14:52

Having listened to the sheer horrific amount of secual abuse of girls by boys at school, and the way even female teachers shame bully and abuse girls, and the wilful stupidity of non sex specific toilets sport and changing rooms, I am fuming - if I had a school age daughter I would home school her - our daughters are not safe in UK schools

Bertiebiscuit · 21/06/2021 14:59

And yes - boys Must be held responsible for their misogynistic behaviour and punished for it - girls and women deserve no less

lazylinguist · 21/06/2021 15:16

Why on earth was this thread moved? It's not about the sex and gender debate really, is it? This is surely early proof of the fact that this division of the feminism section really isn't going to work very well!

I agree that Emma Barnett is pretty awful. I wasn't very impressed with Spielman either though (unsurprisingly, as I'm a teacher). I thought she sounded weak, unsure of herself, non-committal. And although some of her answers sounded like they were towards the GC end of the spectrum, they didn't sound like the product of a considered position. She sounded like she was making it up as she went along tbh.

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