Wild Wanders (hiking group) Women only (but transwomen allowed)

[OMalleyTheAlleyKit]

Does anyone else find stuff like this so frustrating?

A women's group, made for women to hike together because obviously its not safe to meet up with random men to go hiking in a remote area.

But someone asks if it's trans inclusive and of course it is! Because TWAW!

I mean what is the point of making a group for women to be safe with each other if you allow biological men to attend?

If they said "yes of course it is" - are any transwomen actually going to come along?
Or is it just a test? Because if they said no.....

Extremely irritating! No point at all to the group if anyone can self identify into it.

That would stop me joining. Its not women only and they lack the ability to enforce boundaries; so how safe are you?

Yep! After a few years of this, I think there are usually one of 2 things going on

The first and most likely is that the women running the group haven’t really given it much thought. Although there is more sunlight, by and large most ppl are still pretty oblivious. When they’re asked about TW, they’ll be thinking of full surgery & hormones and beeee kind and who does it harm??

Or secondly they’re just keeping their heads down because they know full well what would happen if they said no. I mean it’s always struck me as very odd that no matter how small & niche a woman’s group is, someone will turn up to ask about TW. It’s almost as if TRA go looking for women’s groups to ask. I very much doubt in reality any TW actually want to come along, it’s just TRA policing every space just to make sure women were t thinking of having anything just for them…

Exactly. So any Tom, Dick or Harry can self identify as a woman, join and go ahead and join 6 women alone in the middle of nowhere. Great idea.

@EndoplasmicReticulum

If they said "yes of course it is" - are any transwomen actually going to come along? Or is it just a test? Because if they said no.....

The cynic in me has suspicions

Indeed.

If they are transmen (female) inclusive, that's ok. I'd encourage it.

It's good for women to get out and exercise. Clears the head. Heals the body. Gets women especially, in touch with nature, and their own bodies.

Anything women-only gets targeted by trans. It's about validation, boundary-crossing, being cossetted and waited on by women, and being the centre of attention or dominating member. If they can join menopause groups they will join this.

One of our local groups was targeted like this. The organisers completely ignored it.

The person didn't ask again and nothing came of it. I remember one of the organisers saying privately that she knew a time-waster when she saw one and the group obviously didn't think the inquiry was a genuine request to join.

@EndoplasmicReticulum

If they said "yes of course it is" - are any transwomen actually going to come along? Or is it just a test? Because if they said no.....

The ones who would come along are the ones who don't respect women's boundaries.

Which would put them in the category of "males I definitely wouldn't want to go remote-hiking with", which would have been the exact reason why I'd joined a female-only hiking group, so that makes weren't there.

I find it sad that ALL the replies were woke 'of course she would be welcome'
Rather than addressing the obvious issues

For social stuff it doesn't bother me if some woman-only groups want to be trans inclusive as long as groups that want to be female-only are respected as well.

My personal line is anything where women have a lot of choice and are not driven to by need is fine to be single gender mixed sex.

Anything that women don't really have a choice about (prison, changing facilities, refuges, medical services), is used to drive policy (eg statistics, consultations, women's groups, political officerships and suchlike) or is intended to target specific impacts of sexism (eg shortlists, training opportunities, back to work initiatives) should remain single sex.

Did you mean to upload three pictures? In one the names/photos of the posters are clearly visible whereas in the other, you've edited out their details for privacy. MN might be able to edit that for you, if so.

Lols. Makes me laugh. No guy is going to throw on a frock to join a group of women on a walk in the wilderness. Fearmongering rating 10.

If there is a legitimate purpose per the equality act then transwomen can be excluded...but not based on fearmongering....needs to be real threats, not made up ones.

I don’t see a women’s hiking group about being ‘safe’ but about being a social choice, empowerment maybe.

Wouldn’t bother me if there was a representative ratio of Transwomen in the group. I am gender critical but have had good friends and colleagues who were Trans and don’t think that they would upset a womanish vibe on a hike.

I would be happy for Transmen to be there too.

Mishy, you must have missed the (long) memo that you can be in trousers and a vest, with a beard and a receding hairline, and still be a woman.

That's just a fact, not fear mongering.

@UpTheJunktion

I don’t see a women’s hiking group about being ‘safe’ but about being a social choice, empowerment maybe.

Wouldn’t bother me if there was a representative ratio of Transwomen in the group. I am gender critical but have had good friends and colleagues who were Trans and don’t think that they would upset a womanish vibe on a hike.

I would be happy for Transmen to be there too.

See, this is exactly the sort of post that embodies the way I used to think. All "I'm alright jack, it's fine with me"

The bottom line is, some women want to hike in groups or in fact do anything in a group and they don't want male people there.

There are already mixed sex groups that exist for leisure activities, social activities. As soon as a transwoman joins a women's group they become the male in the group and so the group has lost it's purpose completely.

Trans-inclusive, in women/female only groups, means inclusive of transmen*

We're here for it.

*Fellow females.

Because, let's face it; The oft typed/screeched "Wimmin Kick Wimmin Out Of Toilets Koz They Look Like the Menz" trope is old. And as, any woman really knows, fully debunked. Wholly untrue.

Tanith

Good to hear it.

I'd say at least 90% of the time this is only asked to stir shit. I'd also love to ask if women were welcome to a TW event/ group, or could be nominated in a TW event- cause ya know, we are all just girls in baby pink and heels together........

@MishyJDI

Lols. Makes me laugh. No guy is going to throw on a frock to join a group of women on a walk in the wilderness. Fearmongering rating 10.

If there is a legitimate purpose per the equality act then transwomen can be excluded...but not based on fearmongering....needs to be real threats, not made up ones.

No, it doesn't, Mishy.

Women who want to do stuff in all female groups do NOT have to justify that by demonstrating that 'guys' are a threat, frocks or not.

We're allowed to do stuff as a group of women, & say no to male people.

You seem to think that women can't choose to exclude males?

We don't HAVE to do the bit where we tediously explain that yup, some unpleasant males are quite keen on things like wilderness hiking with women despite being unwelcome, frocks or not.

We can just turn them away & carry on hiking without them.

@UpTheJunktion

I don’t see a women’s hiking group about being ‘safe’ but about being a social choice, empowerment maybe.

Wouldn’t bother me if there was a representative ratio of Transwomen in the group. I am gender critical but have had good friends and colleagues who were Trans and don’t think that they would upset a womanish vibe on a hike.

I would be happy for Transmen to be there too.

I agree it’s a more grey area but I think that actually makes it more important that we talk about it. Where exactly is the line when we start to compare?:

Women’s Hiking group
Women’s institute meeting
Women only shortlist
Women’s spokeswoman
Women’s competitive contact sport
Changing room with 13 years old girls
Lesbian group

My worry is my support at one level is read as support at all levels and is that making it harder for elite Athletes and lesbians and prisoners to push back?

And the assumption is, when asked if the group is trans inclusive is transwomen, not transmen.
To be honest, if the group is happy to include TW that's up to them. But it will probably mean some women are less likely to come.
Women really aren't allowed to have anything for themselves are they.

I'd be really surprised if the invited transwoman a) existed at all and b) really comes along for a walk.
It's a test.