Stonewall's missed campaigns

[SapphosRock]

We all know Stonewall has dropped the ball When it comes to LGB people. It used to have some excellent resources for lesbians, for example this document published in 2009 was really handy when me and DW were planning our family:

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/system/files/pregnantpauseewithcoverr2.pdf

This started me thinking about what Stonewall could have done instead of trampling over women’s rights.

1.	Started a campaign for IVF equality. Infertile heterosexual couples get between 1 and 3 rounds of IVF funded by the NHS depending on where they live. Funding for same-sex couples is practically non-existent.

2.	Campaign to make it illegal to teach under 18s that homosexuality is a sin / gays are going to hell. This is still being drummed into kids in churches and other religious organisations across the country which can be very damaging for the mental health of young, gay children and teenagers. 

3.	Championed lesbian visibility and support groups for lesbians and bisexual women as their voices are often drowned out in mixed LGBTQ+ groups 

Any others?

I am hoping the LGB Alliance will pick this stuff up.

You would hope so, but from what has been seen all LGB Alliance is, is simply an anti-trans campaign group. It actually is doing nothing to advance L, G and B specific issues. Their narrow focus on trans, which is not relevant to their group, makes them an odd group.

If they really want to follow up the rhetoric they will start producing the sort of material you are talking of, and just forget the trans, as is their supposed mission.

I take it you’ve not been following LGBA’s published statements then?

There’s been plenty that doesn’t mention trans at all. But no, let’s just smear them.

OP, which churches do you claim are teaching such anti gay nonsense?
Perhaps you could tell my lesbian minister. She was on the national committee which made our church accept gay ministry. We are completely inclusive here in the C of S.

How would IVF equality work for two gay men?

You keep on saying that and ignoring what LGBA has done, is saying they are doing and are currently doing, like continuing to set up their board of Trustees, getting funding in place, making links with other organisations, advertising themselves after just getting charity status.

What do you want from a new organisation, 18 months old, a few months as a charity?

@Babdoc

OP, which churches do you claim are teaching such anti gay nonsense? Perhaps you could tell my lesbian minister. She was on the national committee which made our church accept gay ministry. We are completely inclusive here in the C of S.

There are some wonderful, inclusive churches and some that aren't.

Many still teach that homosexuality is sinful and must not be acted on. Gay people should be supported to stay single and celibate. For example:

www.fulwoodchurch.co.uk/sermons/homosexuality-questioning-gods-word/

Fine for adults to choose to hear this stuff but it shouldn't be pushed on children and teenagers.

mishy
I suggest you go and look at LGBA rather than simply abusing them. They are advocation for LGB rights in this country and internationally.
But you know that already.

@SmallPug

How would IVF equality work for two gay men?

That is interesting.

I actually have quite a problem with surrogacy and I can see that that is in direct opposition to gay men’s desire to have children.

We had a leaflet through our door from a church that meets locally all about homosexuality being a sin.

@SmallPug

How would IVF equality work for two gay men?

Agreed that lesbian couples and single women should have the same entitlement as straight couples. Don't start including gay men in 'fertility equality' campaigning though. That way leads to the NHS paying for people to exploit women in countries where commercial surrogacy is legal.

@Babdoc

OP, which churches do you claim are teaching such anti gay nonsense? Perhaps you could tell my lesbian minister. She was on the national committee which made our church accept gay ministry. We are completely inclusive here in the C of S.

I worked for the CofE - my boss (a vicar) was really keen officiate at gay weddings. He was really keen on woman vicars and bishops too.

Besides - stonewall is a trashed brand now.

It is not realistic to ban people's religious beliefs, even if we find them upsetting or distasteful. Better to have good sex and relationship education in schools that counter negativity around homosexuality, and for people in society to be able to strongly criticise, mock etc such religious beliefs as that provides a counterbalance to such ideas.

People have to learn how to articulate why a particular belief or idea is bad, harmful, damaging and so on rather than a simplistic ban 'because it's wrong!!' which doesn't challenge the mindset but simply drives it underground. If certain ethnic groups have religious and cultural beliefs that demonise same-sex relationships, it's better to encourage grassroots organisations to engage with these groups and tackle such views and attitudes so that over time there is tangible change in people's minds.

@SmallPug

How would IVF equality work for two gay men?

IVF equality obviously wouldn't be relevant for gay men.

Surrogacy is completely different to IVF and involves the exploitation of women's bodies.

Stonewall could do a campaign to promote gay adoption and fostering though, that would be a very positive thing.

It is not realistic to ban people's religious beliefs, even if we find them upsetting or distasteful

Not for adults but it should be for under 18s

Given how many millions of pounds of taxpayer's money Stonewall has frittered away I think it's a real shame they didn't campaign for third spaces. They could have solved the public toilets problem by now.

Agreed that lesbian couples and single women should have the same entitlement as straight couples.
Don't start including gay men in 'fertility equality' campaigning though. That way leads to the NHS paying for people to exploit women in countries where commercial surrogacy is legal.

I think it would be very difficult to legally exclude gay men from fertility equality. You can't say it's ok for this group of people to have access to reproductive technology but not those group of people.

I am completely opposed to surrogacy, but I think in a way IVF has unintentionally led us to this point.

Or maybe they could have congratulated themselves on a job well done.

Nice tag team dig at LGBA btw.

Apart from tackling the new homophobia coming from gender ID activists, I think that the main huge area for UK gay rights organisations is building links with other countries and trying to help out there. 71 countries still criminalise some aspect of homosexuality. LGBA is doing it to an extent.

@AnotherLass

Apart from tackling the new homophobia coming from gender ID activists, I think that the main huge area for UK gay rights organisations is building links with other countries and trying to help out there. 71 countries still criminalise some aspect of homosexuality. LGBA is doing it to an extent.

Agreed. There are terrible things being done to gay people, in particular gay men around the world.

@NonnyMouse1337

Agreed that lesbian couples and single women should have the same entitlement as straight couples. Don't start including gay men in 'fertility equality' campaigning though. That way leads to the NHS paying for people to exploit women in countries where commercial surrogacy is legal.

I think it would be very difficult to legally exclude gay men from fertility equality. You can't say it's ok for this group of people to have access to reproductive technology but not those group of people.

I am completely opposed to surrogacy, but I think in a way IVF has unintentionally led us to this point.

Well if one of the gay men grows a uterus I guess they would be as entitled as anyone else but until that happens they can't access 'reproductive technology' for body parts they don't have

The NHS is there to resolve health issues and homosexuality isn't a health issue.

with 8 million a year they could have funded refuges and services for the transcommunity. Instead, they focussed on trying to take mine.

That was a mistake.

Stonewall should have been campaigning for asylum seekers who are claiming asylum due to their sexual orientation. The way some have been treated by the civil service is appalling.

The NHS is there to resolve health issues and homosexuality isn't a health issue

Well personally I don’t actually consider infertility in hetro couples a health issue either - but society has deemed hetro couples as worthy of infertility treatment so why not gay couples 🤷‍♀️