Words matter: Men's Health Week

[pombear]

It's Men's Health Week this week, which is a great initiative to get men talking and thinking about their health.

But something odd strikes me on most things I've been reading today.

Particularly as on the same day, we have Jess Phillips stating in a BBC interview "I feel saddened that there are still so many women and people with a cervix, finding out they have HPV"

www.bbc.com/news/uk-57438881.amp

The men's health week focus this year is focused on the important topic of mental health. But physical conditions are also being highlighted.

Unsurprisingly, Jess's role-modelling of language doesn't seem to apply similarly to the men's issue:
twitter.com/UKBPA1/status/1404438476062351365
Surely Adebayo isn't meaning to miss out the 'people with testicles' who have testicles but don't identify as men who may be affected by said chlamidya spreading to testicles?

Surely Gloucestershire NHS Trust doesn't want to exclude those with a prostate, penis, testicles who don't identify as males when they're talking about 'male' cancers?
twitter.com/gloshospitals/status/1404419600540909569

And then in the university sphere we get really confused:
twitter.com/NIHRMaudsleyBRC/status/1404441829039300614
Men in the tweet, male in the blog. Did the Maudsley recruit male-identifying people, men, or adult human males?

And then THT gets in on the act with a reference to Jess's BBC article:-
twitter.com/THTScotland/status/1404441084512681988
#HPV can also cause genital warts, some penile and anal cancers. Most men haven't had the vaccine but if you're a man who has sex with other men, please contact your local sexual health services for an appointment to discuss getting it
But what if you're a non-binary person with a penis? Why aren't THT including 'people with a penis' in their language?

This post could go on and on with similar examples.

But tl/dr: words for women's health and body parts...move over, make room.
words for men's health and body parts...remain resolutely male.

And also you have the examples in newsletter.carolinecriadoperez.com/issues/invisible-women-the-idiosyncratic-female-colon-645938? where men get anaesthetic for their manly procedures but women are expected to grin and bear it for theirs.

Also their equipment is built to fit their anatomy , unlike women where tests are incomplete because equipment built for male bodies doesn't fit .

This all demonstrates that it's not really about including trans people, but removing the words women use to describes ourselves and our experiences.

See also ProstateCancer.org's campaign: "Men, we are with you"

Why are the usual activists not screaming about this and demanding they change it to:

"men, trans women and nonbinary people with a prostate, we are with you" or "simply prostate people, we are with you"?

Why is that?

FricasseeTurnips and 334bu totally!

And FlyPassed yes that's the issue here - it's so imbalanced, which shows what's going on here. If it was really about 'leveling up' there would be an uproar about men = biological health naming issues linked to the word men.

But many of us here know that's not the issue. It's the words for women and women's issues that are being targeted.

Laid bare on weeks such as #menshealthweek

Yes.

Let’s get rid of the word women

Why are men not getting the same treatment ?

Exactly. They can tell us it’s all about being inclusive and friendly to trans identities all they like. If that were true then I would be expecting to see “penis havers mental health week”. It ONLY affects women- midol, an American period drug brand , just released an advert which starts out by saying 46% of menstruators apologise for their period. It absolutely is a double standard. Women are being turned into disparate body parts and bodily functions and men get to still be men.

The other interesting thing is I’ve noticed people scold women to “be kind !”and use “inclusive language “, but if you suggest calling men penis owners the response is a kind of eye roll and “oh don’t be silly.” It is natural and fitting to call women menstruators, but calling men ejaculators is being obtuse and “making a point”. My uni has a men’s health week as well and the language is so resolutely “men” that I’m afraid to ask them why it’s not scotrum possessors. But we all know why. Men’s dignity is destroyed by calling them cock owners, and men know this. They know it’s degrading to be reduced to walking genitalia. But it’s only apt for women.

Totally WeeBisom - that's interesting about your uni. Seems to be across the board - would love to hear from someone's institution that's not having it - anywhere, anyone?

'Scrotum possessors' made me visualise a bag of scrotums!

(Have always loved your username, by the way!)

Yea curious double standard isn’t it? I wonder why nobody is up in arms about what men call themselves….

8th rule of misogyny - men are whatever they say they are, women are whatever men say they are.

Is noted Penis Person Owen Jones busily tweeting how exclusionary this is and how it is risking the health of penis havers who don’t identify as men?

I’m sure he is.

We should point out all the exclusionary language and Cc Stonewall.

Prostate Cancer UK has this explanation:

“ The following people have a prostate:
men
trans women*
non-binary people who were assigned male at birth**
some intersex people.*”

Cancer Research UK also refers to “people with prostate cancer”.

That's interesting peaderm

Just looking for it myself. Haven't seen it on the main page for
Prostate Cancer UK where the words are 'men, we are with you'.

I've been scouring the front page for 'who's at risk'...can't find your references easily? prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information/are-you-at-risk
Their main strapline in that section is: In the UK, about 1 in 8 men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer in their lifetime

Surely in Jess's world it has to be 'men and people with a prostate'?

So went off to the symptoms page:
And most men with early prostate cancer don’t have any symptoms
The PSA test page: Many men with a raised PSA level don't have prostate cancer

The Digital Rectal Examination Page: but some men find the idea of having a DRE upsetting

Prostate biopsy page: some men find the biopsy painful

I did potter onto CRUK and I'm pleased to say the word woman is featuring on their cervical cancer pages, as well as referencing Trans men can also develop cervical cancer if they haven't had an operation to remove their womb and cervix (total hysterectomy)

Macmillan might want to take some guidance from CRUK as the word 'woman' doesn't seem to feature on their first pages of cervical cancer: www.macmillan.org.uk/cancer-information-and-support/cervical-cancer?&infinity=ict2~net~gaw~ar~326934617661~kw~%2bcervix%20%2bcancer~mt~b~cmp~g_ps_cid_uk_gen_cancer+type_cervical_bm~ag~core&gclid=eaiaiqobchmi7plfouax8qivhixrch3maqjmeaayasaaegirffd_bwe&gclsrc=aw.ds

...even though the word 'men' seems to feature in the prostate cancer section: www.macmillan.org.uk/cancer-information-and-support/prostate-cancer?&infinity=ict2~net~gaw~ar~326987670368~kw~%2bprostate%20%2bcancer~mt~b~cmp~g_ps_cid_uk_gen_cancer+type_prostate_bm~ag~core&gclid=eaiaiqobchmi5yil1-ax8qivbhogab1g8wedeaayasaaegkn_vd_bwe&gclsrc=aw.ds

(Sorry for messy long links!)

#HPV can also cause genital warts, some penile and anal cancers. Most men haven't had the vaccine but if you're a man who has sex with other men, please contact your local sexual health services for an appointment to discuss getting it

Not meaning to derail thread, as I agree the language used is a mess.
But this is a homophobic tweet because males can get HPV from having sex with females. It’s not a gay sex diseases. This is reminding me of AIDS when it first came about.

Yes PlanDeRaccordement and you've flagged up something interesting in that.

www.tht.org.uk/our-work/about-our-charity/our-strategy
Women do get a couple of mentions in the Terence Higgins Trust strategy, even though people not identifying with the word 'men' didn't appear in today's tweet!

@pombear

A couple of references: prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information/coronavirus-covid-19-and-prostate-cancer/common-questions/

prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information/about-prostate-cancer/

• 2nd section down titled “Who has a prostate?”

It’s not yet as pervasive as in the USA, but it’s coming. Trans women have prostates after all.

I searched the hashtag and had a squiz at ones with a fair few comments for about 10 tweets.

Zero comments about the exclusionary language.

This difference is so blatant.

Had a quick Owen search. 2021

18 Jan
Everyone needs to see this.

Here's my interview with doctor
@SaleyhaAhsan
, who watched her dad die of COVID-19, who has seen healthy men in their 40s devastated by the virus - and medical staff on their literal knees.

Please watch and share.

Men... Men??!!!!

[quote peadarm]@pombear

A couple of references: prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information/coronavirus-covid-19-and-prostate-cancer/common-questions/

prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information/about-prostate-cancer/

• 2nd section down titled “Who has a prostate?”

It’s not yet as pervasive as in the USA, but it’s coming. Trans women have prostates after all.[/quote]
Don't get it

The first link mentions men loads eg

'The effects of coronavirus infection could be particularly severe for certain people with prostate cancer (those who are ‘clinically extremely vulnerable’). These include men having:

chemotherapy
clinical trial drugs that affect the immune system, such as olaparib (Lynparza®) or pembrolizumab (Keytruda®).'

Have I missed something?

Second link

Are you at risk?
In the UK, about 1 in 8 men will get prostate cancer in their lifetime.

@PlanDeRaccordement

#HPV can also cause genital warts, some penile and anal cancers. Most men haven't had the vaccine but if you're a man who has sex with other men, please contact your local sexual health services for an appointment to discuss getting it

Not meaning to derail thread, as I agree the language used is a mess.
But this is a homophobic tweet because males can get HPV from having sex with females. It’s not a gay sex diseases. This is reminding me of AIDS when it first came about.

I would strongly dispute this.

It's a risk based approach for the population as a whole.

It would be a derail though you're right.

I worked for the CDSC on HIV in the early 90s.

This might explain the difference re. HPV vaccine.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/hpv-human-papillomavirus-vaccine/

In the first link, the opening sentence is "8 June 2021
Below is some information about coronavirus (COVID-19) for people who have, or have had, prostate cancer and their loved ones, and for people who are worried they may have prostate cancer."

The 3rd paragraph is "We also have lots of information about the COVID-19 vaccines for people with prostate cancer."

The 2nd section begins "The effects of coronavirus infection could be particularly severe for certain people with prostate cancer".

In the section entitled 'Do I need to follow this guidance after I've had the coronavirus vaccine?', we are invited to "read our information about COVID-19 vaccines for people with prostate cancer".

Curiously, the sections about treatment (probably not as recent as the covid material) refer to 'men'.

Well sure but I did a search on the first one and men are mentioned 15 times.

It's really not equivalent to what is being done with the language around female reproductive health.