Why conflate 'Gender Critical' and belief in immutable sex?

[Beancounter1]

I'm confused about why the term 'gender critical' is conflated with the belief in immutable biological sex. To me they are not necessarily the same thing.

I believe it is not possible for someone to change their sex. Would you say this is a 'gender critical' stance? My belief in immutable sex doesn't necessarily mean I don't believe gender exists. Maybe someone can change their gender, if not their sex.

Sex seems a really clear-cut biological characteristic, but I am on the fence about gender - I am inclined to think it does actually exist and that it is not 'all society's influence', that some of gender is nature not nurture.
But I don't have a definition of gender.

The situation is not helped by the fact there is, in common usage, only one set of words, 'woman' or 'female', to signify both gender and sex. Language does not help here.

Please could someone who has put a lot more thought into this help me out here?

And in every society ever known, the local, cultural expectations of the two sexes are hard to defy and almost impossible to escape for individuals.

That is what feminism is about. The priority should be lifting people from the deprivations and damage visited on them because they belong to a sex that isn't permitted to identify out of oppression.

It's all very well people in advanced democracies muddying the water and saying biological sex isn't real; when the invading army rolls into town, the soldiers have no trouble knowing who to rape and who to recruit. Nobody ever tried to cut out the clitoris and stitch up the labia of a little boy. Nobody lets a little girl slip into the classroom of a school that's only for the boys.

We don't need the genital police or chromosome testers at the doors of single sex spaces to know who should and shouldn't be in there; as socialised humans we can categorise people by sex in a nanosecond and we're doing it all the time, without even thinking about it. The fact that we can't readily do it with infants and pre-pubertal children is why people get embarrassed if they misread the sex of a baby and why parents encumber the baby girls with those ghastly headwraps and bows on elastic, and why children's clothing and shoes and hairstyles are so strictly policed.

If we couldn't easily tell who was who post-puberty, we'd need to go on doing that stuff throughout life, and we don't

Stand me at a washbasin and let 100 people stand next to me and wash their ringless bare hands and I guarantee I'll know men from women, every time without needing to hear a voice or notice height or clock clothing or look higher than their wrists.

@merrymouse

To me 'gender' is shorthand for the phrase 'personality traits that correlate broadly (on average) with sex

That is your definition, but the WHO definition is:

Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed.

www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1

Women who are critical of gender are referring to the WHO definition.

Just to point out your have truncated my proposed definition. I said 'personality traits that correlate broadly (on average) with sex, due to the interaction of sex-differences and social conditioning'. I wasn't leaving out the bit about society, just wondering about the link to biology.

Please, figure out what your question is, and don't use the word gender anywhere in the post.

Okay, I could try to do that, but that is not what I was originally asking.

I was asking about why the term 'gender critical' is conflated with a belief in the immutability of sex. To discuss this, we need to look at what 'gender critical' means, and so look at what 'gender' means ... and down the rabbit hole we go.
So I will leave the gender discussion aside, and just go with 'it means whatever most people round here think it means.'

*I'm increasingly disliking the label gender critical for people who are speaking out against the specific issue around the idea that you can change sex, and implications for law and safeguarding as there really is so much confusion around what it actually means.

Online it's smeared and those with no interest in unpicking what it actually means close their ears to any arguments.*

Absolutely agree. The term 'gender critical' is opaque to the general population, who I am guessing would mostly be totally against the idea of allowing trans people into singe-sex spaces and sex-based jobs and positions, if they knew what was happening.
It just doesn't communicate what the issues are.

why are there many bright young people, and many 'stars' who aren't partially young speaking out against the 'GC' view?

Because they've been swept up in a collective psychic movement, and social media is all about signalling.

Which personality traits do you consider to be due to sex differences?

Any and all of them, but they are not due entirely to sex differences, you can't leave out the society bit.
Say a baby was born with a pre-disposition to a hot temper (accepting for the moment the idea that babies are born with pre-dispositions).
How that hot temper is displayed and incorporated into personality will be absolutely modified by social conditioning. Hence angry men, and bitter or depressed women who have been conditioned to never display anger (please excuse the pop-psychology, its just an illustration).

@lazylinguist

Someone just posted a video about what gender and gender identity are on this thread, including this written definition, which I think is excellent.

Definitely recommend the video. And that definition is hilarious - love they way it looks so preposterous and then they break it down bit by bit so it all makes sense.

Because they've been swept up in a collective psychic movement, and social media is all about signalling.

I attended a lecture recently in which the speaker discussed the influence of The Lonely Crowd.

She outlined that looking to others and sharing is a modern phenomenon of being able to have an emotion and be validated for it rather than cultivating solitude. It is only by cultivating solitude and being grounded in oneself that gives sufficient of a sense in self to be able to form a relationship with others. The capacity for solitude and being alone allows people not to be lonely and to develop empathy and understanding of others' perspectives rather than an exchange of validation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lonely_Crowd

It feels relevant and like something I should take the time to read.

Really interesting, thank you EmbarassingAdmissions.

I said 'personality traits that correlate broadly (on average) with sex, due to the interaction of sex-differences and social conditioning'.
I wasn't leaving out the bit about society, just wondering about the link to biology.

Again, you seem to be conflating personality/behaviour with gender.

That isn’t gender, it’s personality and behaviour traits. It’s possible to criticise gender (societal and cultural expectations)
but still believe that some personality and behaviour traits are influenced by sex.

Gender critical is not equivalent to blank slate.

For comparison, height is definitely influenced by sex as well as environment and genetics and it’s possible to discriminate against women on the basis of height, but it serves no useful purpose to talk about male and female heights as though Ronnie Corbett was somehow female.

@Beancounter1

*I'm increasingly disliking the label gender critical for people who are speaking out against the specific issue around the idea that you can change sex, and implications for law and safeguarding as there really is so much confusion around what it actually means.

Online it's smeared and those with no interest in unpicking what it actually means close their ears to any arguments.*

Absolutely agree. The term 'gender critical' is opaque to the general population, who I am guessing would mostly be totally against the idea of allowing trans people into singe-sex spaces and sex-based jobs and positions, if they knew what was happening.
It just doesn't communicate what the issues are.

It will become a slur like T*rf.