Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Protecting kids from porn - new legal action

41 replies

TomFarr1 · 11/06/2021 11:20

Hi all,

My name is Tom, and I'm the Head of Legal Advocacy at a UK charity called CEASE UK (Centre to End All Sexual Exploitation). I have written a number of Medium articles in the past that have been critical of the whole "gender identity" debate that have (gratefully!) been popular on Mumsnet, as well as other articles on porn and prostitution (for those interested, my non-work affiliated writing can be found here: medium.com/@tom_farr/)

I'm posting today to draw your attention to a new legal action CEASE is launching against the Information Commissioner's Office, for failing to investigate porn sites who we believe have been unlawfully processing children's data, and consequently they are able to further target underage users with content that is exploitative, abusive, and illegal. Ultimately, we want to #ProtectKidsFromPorn.

We have launched a Crowdfunder that explains our position, as well as detailing the legal basis for the case. link removed by MNHQ at OP's request

It would be fantastic if you could have a read of the campaign, and share amongst others who may be interested. Any questions, please do feel free to drop me a message.

CEASE is on Twitter at @CeaseORGuk

My personal account is @uracontra_

Feel free to drop me/us a follow! Thanks in advance all.

OP posts:
guinnessguzzler · 12/06/2021 06:38

I'm not sure why we're all learning so much about VPNs here; I haven't used one since 2015, when my work still hadn't heard of the cloud.

Fundamentally these are just practical problems being presented as impossible hurdles. Of course it won't be easy but since this is mostly internet related, I mean, we could just unplug it? Grin

Obviously not a serious suggestion but as humans we can solve problems we have created, of course we can. The smoking example is an excellent one of how legislation has supported widespread culture change. It has taken time but now far fewer children are becoming addicted and signing up to spend the cost of a house on giving themselves COPD and most people now agree that is a good thing. I'm sure we can turn the tide on this too.

Sophoclesthefox · 12/06/2021 06:59

Thanks Tom, am place marking to have a look later.

When the porn and prostitution apologists turn up to tell you it’s too hard to do anything about any of this, you know you’re on the right track Grin ignore them, they’re sort of part of the furniture here.

partystress · 12/06/2021 07:23

Disappointed to see how slowly the crowdfunder is building. Can we do some sharing IRL to try to get it boosted?

It’s about what we ignore being what we allow. I’m not prepared to allow the government to fail our children like this. And the public health duty has to start somewhere. The smoking analogy is a good one.

manatsu · 12/06/2021 19:31

Thank you for your hard work, Tom. I'll have a look at this. This is especially important to me as a mother of daughters, but it really affects everyone.

manatsu · 12/06/2021 19:34

Ugh, I hate that when I saw #AVNow on the site I was confused for a few seconds as I took it to mean 'Adult Video' (term in Japan for porn) rather than 'Age Verification' Angry

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 12/06/2021 19:51

Thanks, Tom. I'm glad someone is tackling this.

Datun · 12/06/2021 19:53

Placemarking to read.

happydappy2 · 12/06/2021 19:54

Tom I think all Heads off schools should join some sort of lobbying group to protect kids from porn. they have to deal with the fallout of this mess.I sometimes feel like a lone voice but the truth is porn is violent abuse of women and girls & it’s morphed into something far removed from just watching other people have raunchy sex. The fact the government could have introduced age verification last year and didn’t, is appalling. Yes some kids will find a way to circumnavigate the internet, but a lot won’t... Thank you for posting here, I’ll have a read

guinnessguzzler · 12/06/2021 20:24

@manatsu

Ugh, I hate that when I saw #AVNow on the site I was confused for a few seconds as I took it to mean 'Adult Video' (term in Japan for porn) rather than 'Age Verification' Angry
To be fair, initially I thought Nick Clegg had belatedly got his act together to run a decent campaign for Alternative Vote Grin
guinnessguzzler · 12/06/2021 20:30

@guinnessguzzler It was ten years ago, stop going on about Nick Clegg and derailing an important thread Blush

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 13/06/2021 11:36

I think all Heads off schools should join some sort of lobbying group to protect kids from porn. they have to deal with the fallout of this mess.I sometimes feel like a lone voice but the truth is porn is violent abuse of women and girls

The recent reports in the news emphasise that this is a substantial public health problem.

FactsAndFigs · 13/06/2021 23:17

I hadn’t heard of Ceaseuk before so this is very informative.

This is on one of my long list of issues that just from parent prospective I have big problem with in the way it’s been normalised even by the likes of NSPCC and even childline allow unmonitored discussion about on forum both sites which are meant to be child friendly and promoted as such. They also given the nature of them don’t fall under ISPO rules.

TomFarr1 · 14/06/2021 10:53

@MargaritaPie

Q for Tom- You are in favour of the age verification thing to try to prevent under 18s looking at porn. Have you anything to say about the fact VPNs and TOR are common knowledge amongst young people now?

As well as the fact what the Government is proposing for the age verification actually requires porn sites to comply and to adjust their site to allow this. Given that there must be tens or hundreds of thousands of porn sites all over the world, they aren't all going to entertain the UK Government. What do we do about all those?

And how would we stop people from sharing porn on forums, or p2p networks, or email/social networking etc?

Hi all, thank you very much for your support on this issue, and for engaging critically with the topic. The above question is a fair one @MargaritaPie - thank you for asking.

For those who aren't familiar Age Verification was a Government policy contained within Part 3 of the Digital Economy Act, that would have required porn sites to have a form of age verification technology to prevent underage users accessing the sites. Despite the DEA receiving Royal Assent in and of itself, Part 3 was never actually implemented. Without boring you all to tears dealing with the intricacies of Judicial Reviews, there are questions about whether the Government were allowed to not implement this. But in any case, it wasn't implemented, and the upcoming Online Safety Bill (formerly Online Harms Bill) will expressly repeal Part 3 and take that version of AV off the table permanently. So at the moment, the only upcoming regulation will be the OSB, and I personally foresee major issues with that as well, although too extensive to go into here. Anyway, in response to the above question...

First and foremost, AV was never meant to be a silver bullet. It was portrayed as this in the media (as well as being called a "porn ban", which it obviously wasn't). It should be viewed as one piece of the puzzle, in dealing with issues arising from an industry that is currently wildly unregulated.

Whilst I take your point that many people know how to use VPNs etc, equally, what we are seeing within the sector is many young children accidentally stumbling onto these websites, where they wouldn't otherwise be able to if there was a "barrier" (such as AV) in place to initially prevent it. Of course, many young people will continue and find work arounds, but equally, many won't.

The question regarding the global nature of porn sites is a tricky one - you are right that many sites won't entertain the UK Gov, but this is part of a larger conversation that I/CEASE/other organisations are currently having on a global scale. Again, it's about chipping away at an industry that has thus far acted with impunity due to very little legal oversight.

The upcoming Online Safety Bill has afforded an opportunity for us to change the conversation about how people perceive the harms related to porn (more on this in a couple of months hopefully!), but again, it's a work in progress and will require long term strategising and international co-ordination.

Regarding p2p, emails etc - there are many factors at play here. Firstly, we want to see a change in the way people are allowed to upload adult content (again, this will become clearer in a month or so when I can gladly update you in more detail); this will theoretically change the flow of information in terms of the type of content that can be shared at all, as opposed to just vast quantities of unregulated, anonymous content.

Secondly, these larger social media sites need to implement more robust mechanisms to detect/prevent adult content being shared where kids may also be present (eg, Facebook etc). This is a bona fide child protection issue, and not - as some critics like to say - a "moralising" about "icky nudity". Children are suffering enormous psychological and emotional damage from being able to access porn from increasingly younger ages. So when the issue is couched in that type of language, it suddenly becomes extremely unattractive for social media companies not to do something to tackle it, because the alternative is a tacit complicity in propagating extremely harmful and exploitative content. Again, this type of thing isn't a silver bullet, but one part of a larger puzzle.

I hope that provides some answers/clarity around these issues. Thanks for taking the time to engage.

OP posts:
Imnobody4 · 14/06/2021 20:09

Thanks for this Tom - it's a crucially important issue for anyone who cares about children.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 14/06/2021 21:11

Bloody hell that crowdfund isn't moving as quickly as I would expect it to!

Bump for the gardeners.

MargaritaPie · 14/06/2021 22:56

"Of course, many young people will continue and find work arounds, but equally, many won't."

There will be young people who don't know about VPNs at the moment, but I can guarantee if anything is implemented which blocks/censors porn in some way or puts it behind a verification wall etc, within a month every young person will know about VPNs. Young people will just ask and tell each other online and offline how to get around it.

"we want to see a change in the way people are allowed to upload adult content"

This sounds concerning. Not sure exactly what this means but I'm not sure exactly how the Government plans to implement whatever this is. Everytime something is uploaded or an email is sent will it be pending in mid-transmission until the Government personally checks it and gives it the go-ahead? Won't VPNs bypass whatever this is proposing too?

There's also the darkweb which more people are becoming aware of. If the clearnet is censored heavily enough and porn is inaccessible then that will just drive people to the darknet(which of course is even more risky and dangerous).

IMO trying to censor legal porn on the internet is futile, what is needed is education about porn. And I mean proper unbiased education, if you just give a one-side "porn is bad" hysterical education that will work just as well as the "drugs are bad" education for example by DARE officers in the US(who are pretty much seen as a joke).

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread