Can people really not see the relationship

[EastWestWhosBest]

Between girls wanting to opt out of being girls, (and in a way contributing to the first headline), and the second headline?

Oh most of us here can see it all right. More widely, people aren't yet aware just how many girls are fleeing womanhood like a house on fire.

Unfortunately seeing the connection would then throw everything up in the air. So people have to try not to or pretend there's absolutely nothing there.

We were actually promised a review by penny mordant onto the 4400 percent increase in girls showing up at the gender clinic but that never happened

@RadandMad

Oh most of us here can see it all right. More widely, people aren't yet aware just how many girls are fleeing womanhood like a house on fire.

And I don't blame them. I'd do the same if I was 12.

Obviously, I'd grow to realise it doesn't work. But I'd be desperate to escape my fate of becoming a woman.

Yip

It's attractive idea, pity it doesn't work

and now you can be medicalised for life to give you a marginally better chance that it might work , but a lot more damage when you realise it doesn't

Can I also add this article from yesterday OP.

archive.li/itpqA

Line them up and add in the trend for insisting on using dehumanising language for women and their health needs and it is really not a huge conceptual leap as to why young women have significant mental health issues and many wish to identify as anything but female.

In fact, if you listen to some of the detransitioners, many have said they now recognise this contributed to why they identified as young men.

@RadandMad

Oh most of us here can see it all right. More widely, people aren't yet aware just how many girls are fleeing womanhood like a house on fire.

As said above by someone else, I don’t blame the girls in the slightest. It’s just a sad that the dots aren’t being joined. I’m not saying this is the reason for for every girl who transitions but it must be for some.

Yes, there is an appeal to rejecting being female. The disadvantages and prejudices and harrassments ive experience have always been biological though (groped flashed out paid less, cornered by motherhood)

i dont think any girl i know who has suffered from abuse (physical and sexual, as well as this type of s**t) wants to become a boy to get rid of it. round my neck of the woods (ireland) transgenders get a lot more abuse

that connection sounds a bit tinhatty, tbh.

It's speculation really, isn't it? No can really say until it's been investigated properly.

DeeKavCoffee

Maybe listen to some of the detransitioners tell their stories. I also listen carefully to my teen’s friends as they talk and I pick this theme up quite often.

So, for you tinhatty. For me, the connections seem pretty clear and becoming seen by more people each day.

@Marguerite2000

It's speculation really, isn't it? No can really say until it's been investigated properly.

I would love to see an in-depth study on it. I wonder if something like that will be included in the Cass report?

Unfortunately attempts to investigate have been shut down.

The safguarding lead at the Tavistock is currently suing , penny mordant never followed through with her promise of the enquiry , and detransitioners are treated horribly.

I cant see it happening sadly

@EastWestWhosBest

Between girls wanting to opt out of being girls, (and in a way contributing to the first headline), and the second headline?

cool. But then why would boys want to be girls? If it is so bad being a woman, surely not....

Well
A gay boy in a homophobic environment may well wish they were a girl

Treated horribly by some activists on forums like reddit etc I should say.

Yeah I definitely don't think you could call it tin hatty tbh. There's so much evidence to show now that in many, or at least all too many cases there is a direct correlation with girls transitioning to escape sexual trauma and all the negatives that come with being a woman.

Many detransitioners have said as much, as well as it being observed by medical professionals at the Tavistock.

@Helleofabore

DeeKavCoffee

Maybe listen to some of the detransitioners tell their stories. I also listen carefully to my teen’s friends as they talk and I pick this theme up quite often.

So, for you tinhatty. For me, the connections seem pretty clear and becoming seen by more people each day.

it just seems a bit tinhatty because its the same thing they used to say in the 80s about lgbs

i remember not coming out til 94 because i used to get told that lesbians were just women who'd been abused by men

im sure to some anecdotal evidence is great but i agree that a study needs to be done by someone impartial

But then why would boys want to be girls? If it is so bad being a woman, surely not....

I don’t think the reasons are the same for boys identifying as girls.

it just seems a bit tinhatty because its the same thing they used to say in the 80s about lgbs

I think that comparison has been well and truly debunked now.

it just seems a bit tinhatty because its the same thing they used to say in the 80s about lgbs

So, have you also then been part of the conversations with groups of teen girls? Those

It was the conversation around the Everyone's Invited website earlier this year that made the penny drop for my very ardently trans-ally teen daughters. Suddenly the massive rise of girls identifying as non-binary made sense to them. It's a way of opting out of the hyper-sexualisation of girls that starts from pre-puberty and intensifies right the way through high school. They absolutely recognised that identifying as non-binary allows girls to reject the pornified pressure of femininity and retain some control, rather than being called frigid and ugly. (They may still be called those things, but their non-binary identity gives them some protection because it isn't reliant on being thought pretty and sexy.)

that connection sounds a bit tinhatty, tbh

Really?? Obviously not all young women who suffer sexual abuse and harassment are going to react by opting out of femininity, but surely it isn't a stretch to say the dramatic, unprecedented increase in boys regularly accessing porn, the everyday harassment and sexual abuse of girls IN SCHOOL, and the 4000% increase in young women wanting to identify out of being female could be connected?

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

Yeah I definitely don't think you could call it tin hatty tbh. There's so much evidence to show now that in many, or at least all too many cases there is a direct correlation with girls transitioning to escape sexual trauma and all the negatives that come with being a woman.

Many detransitioners have said as much, as well as it being observed by medical professionals at the Tavistock.

i cant find any evidence though, that's the thing! happy to be corrected

Oops didn’t finish.

Particularly those who are questioning their sexual orientation? Thanks to the wonders of the internet and porn and many other factors that are very different from the 80s, I am not sure your comparison is correct.

As you say, some in-depth studies would be great. A pity they were deemed hateful and shut down until recently. Another effect of no debate.

@WinterTrees

It was the conversation around the Everyone's Invited website earlier this year that made the penny drop for my very ardently trans-ally teen daughters. Suddenly the massive rise of girls identifying as non-binary made sense to them. It's a way of opting out of the hyper-sexualisation of girls that starts from pre-puberty and intensifies right the way through high school. They absolutely recognised that identifying as non-binary allows girls to reject the pornified pressure of femininity and retain some control, rather than being called frigid and ugly. (They may still be called those things, but their non-binary identity gives them some protection because it isn't reliant on being thought pretty and sexy.)

that connection sounds a bit tinhatty, tbh

Really?? Obviously not all young women who suffer sexual abuse and harassment are going to react by opting out of femininity, but surely it isn't a stretch to say the dramatic, unprecedented increase in boys regularly accessing porn, the everyday harassment and sexual abuse of girls IN SCHOOL, and the 4000% increase in young women wanting to identify out of being female could be connected?

the 4000% sounds specifc...is there a report? would love to read it!

ty

@Helleofabore

Oops didn’t finish.

Particularly those who are questioning their sexual orientation? Thanks to the wonders of the internet and porn and many other factors that are very different from the 80s, I am not sure your comparison is correct.

As you say, some in-depth studies would be great. A pity they were deemed hateful and shut down until recently. Another effect of no debate.

hopefully now as a result of the Maya transphobia ruling we can see more civilised discussion and studies like this