My child's teacher are starting to put pronouns in email signatures etc.

[SpartanRunningGirl]

Ok first off I'm new to MN so not sure where to post this...

In email comms from my child's school I note the teachers are signing emails with their pronouns, including the headteacher. Now I see this at work too - but that is an all adult environment. My concern in school is that by doing this the school is tacitly pushing and condoning a gender identity agenda and creating an environment where pronoun use etc is normalised, gender stereotypes are reinforced and sex based identity is marginalised. I want to challenge this, anyone out there with similar experience?

I would also look at the Transgender Trend website. It has lots of useful info and they can (discreetly) send out their info packs (which are really nice glossies, very informative and professionally done) to the safeguarding leads at the school (and whoever you nominate, really).

The link because a while ago there was a bogus site set up with a similar name.

www.transgendertrend.com/about_us/

I work with a lot of doctors so find it useful :)
Nothing worse than referring to Dr Brown as a he when they’re a she.
Also there is someone trans at my workplace who looks like a woman but is a trans man. Having pronouns he/him in his signature stops misgendering. I think the idea of cisgendered people joining in is to normalise this, and not make trans people stand out.

Nothing worse than referring to Dr Brown as a he when they’re a she.

Really. What an absolute horror of a faux Pas. How did you recover? Who will be playing Dr Brown in the movie.

Or is it embarrassing because it reveals your sexist assumptions?

Movie Poster should read:
Pronouns: This time it's personal!

"all boys and all girls should be free to be themselves, and see “gender” or “gender identity” as a negative label/constraint"

seen on twitter and seems apt in this situation

I'm a teacher and I have said openly that I won't be doing this, ever.

I'm also open about the need to teach biological fact. I tell the kids who announce their pronouns etc. that they are on a journey to discover their personality and preferences and it's important for them to remain open minded.

nothing worse than referring to Dr a town as a he when they’re a she
But there’s never any need for that to happen if you are in any doubt check them out on the workplace intranet, or just ask a colleague. I worked in a hospital for 26 years, no one worried about this.

Or is it embarrassing because it reveals your sexist assumptions?

One of the reasons a number of doctors/workers choose not to share their sex.

@fairynick

I work with a lot of doctors so find it useful :) Nothing worse than referring to Dr Brown as a he when they’re a she. Also there is someone trans at my workplace who looks like a woman but is a trans man. Having pronouns he/him in his signature stops misgendering. I think the idea of cisgendered people joining in is to normalise this, and not make trans people stand out.

It doesn’t come across as ‘normalising’ though although I am sure the intention is good for many. When you see a bearded man proclaiming that he is indeed he/him, how exactly is that helping. The reason people ‘misgender’ trans people isn’t because enough people don’t state their pronouns. It’s because a person’s biological sex is usually immediately visible and it’s very hard to consistently state something different to what your brain is telling you. Not a single TRA in my workplace has ever asked me for my pronouns. Not once. They seem to know to refer to me using female pronouns though. Yet they also say that we cannot tell gender from sight. Seems that they can where I am concerned, which is weird.

i dont get why there is offence in this...unless the teachers are trying to make kids trans then there is no harm? i dont see what ofsted are going to do unless children are being harmed

i think there are bigger fish to fry

unless the teachers are trying to make kids trans then there is no harm?

Intent doesn't matter. It's outcome. We currently have a huge, huge number of young people, disproportionately girls that are trying to change their sex with hormones and surgery. We know this is not a good solution mentally and physically. Teachers affirming that pronouns and stereotypes are what make your gender has negative consequences.
Teachers are also not allowed to share their political views and this is an extreme political view.
And teaching is always adapting to this stuff. The healthy eating plate and lessons were changed in part because of anorexia and bulimia in girls. We no longer talk about good foods and bad foods because of this.
A teacher's job is to promote inclusion of others. They do this by promoting understanding that everyone is different and entitled to different beliefs. They don't do this by promoting one viewpoint as right and everyone must affirm this and change the way they interact with the world.

@DeeKavCoffee

i dont get why there is offence in this...unless the teachers are trying to make kids trans then there is no harm? i dont see what ofsted are going to do unless children are being harmed

i think there are bigger fish to fry

Lucky you that you aren’t bothered by this.

Many people are though. And that’s why we raise our concerns about it. So far it hasn’t stopped me paying attention to any other issues, thankfully.

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer

unless the teachers are trying to make kids trans then there is no harm?

Intent doesn't matter. It's outcome. We currently have a huge, huge number of young people, disproportionately girls that are trying to change their sex with hormones and surgery. We know this is not a good solution mentally and physically. Teachers affirming that pronouns and stereotypes are what make your gender has negative consequences.
Teachers are also not allowed to share their political views and this is an extreme political view.
And teaching is always adapting to this stuff. The healthy eating plate and lessons were changed in part because of anorexia and bulimia in girls. We no longer talk about good foods and bad foods because of this.
A teacher's job is to promote inclusion of others. They do this by promoting understanding that everyone is different and entitled to different beliefs. They don't do this by promoting one viewpoint as right and everyone must affirm this and change the way they interact with the world.

I've heard a lot about the disproportionately girls bit but I've never seen the journal article or study that comes from...can anyone link me?

I don't think this is political or extreme to be honest. And it'd be a wonder if my DD even looked at her emails from her teacher, never mind a signature

I'd say pick our battles because this seems like an idiotic one...calling Ofsted on a group of teachers (who are disproportionately women)? Do us a favour

Further to the Maya Forstater judgement this morning one of lawyers has blogged on the wider implications and mentions schools:

"Education authorities will want to review their policies to determine whether a cohort of pupils and students are being miseducated by the presentation of a contentious and doctrinaire view of sex and gender as being a matter of settled fact."

www.linkedin.com/pulse/forstater-judgment-what-next-peter-daly/

@DeeKavCoffee

i dont get why there is offence in this...unless the teachers are trying to make kids trans then there is no harm? i dont see what ofsted are going to do unless children are being harmed

i think there are bigger fish to fry

You’re right. You really don’t get it.

@leanandmean31 (i cant quote your post for some reason)

Happy to be educated as i am interested in this stuff but anytime i ask questions on this board i get shut down or get quite rude replies. my impression is that this is a place of debate and discussion but it seems to be party lines all the time.

there isn't as much discussion about this in Ireland so I'm a bit behind maybe. i still dont get what a pronoun is going to do. from my (albeit limited) knowledge on transsexual things nobody decides to become transsexual because of pronouns. it seems a bit of a leap, and a bit extreme, to be calling a regulator because some teachers have a line in their email signatures.

Having pronouns in your email signals that you are a believer in gender ideology and a denier of the relevance of biological sex. By stating that you are a woman because you identify as one, you are implying that women identify into their oppression rather than it being something we cannot change.
It also signals hostility towards gender critical views. That means that anyone questioning what is an ideology that actively harms women and children may face punishment or sanctions for doing so.
I would be extremely concerned if my children attended a school where the teaching staff believed that biological sex wasn’t real and would likely put the feelings of a boy who IDd as female above the safety and comfort of girls, as has happened so many times already in schools.

I hope that goes some way towards explaining.

@Leanandmean31 thank you for your post and explaining your point of view. I think it sounds a bit farfetched to think that women 'identify into their oppression', or that it signifies hostility to GC views because you have pronouns in sig, but you do you. GCs (at least you in UK) are also protected now from that hostility, thanks to Maya.

I think some people spend too much time on Twitter and MN and start seeing assassins in the shadows tbh. Speaking of, I'm off to walk the dog!

@fairynick

I work with a lot of doctors so find it useful :) Nothing worse than referring to Dr Brown as a he when they’re a she. Also there is someone trans at my workplace who looks like a woman but is a trans man. Having pronouns he/him in his signature stops misgendering. I think the idea of cisgendered people joining in is to normalise this, and not make trans people stand out.

What is this ‘cisgendered people’ of which you speak pray tell?

I'm not allowed to put that I am a vegan, a socialist or even a feminist in my work signature.
Having pronouns reveals a certain political view. Teachers aren't allowed to openly discuss their politics. I'm a teacher, I know the rules as should these pronoun flashers. It really is that simple.

@soontobe60 cisgender is like heterosexual, if im understanding correctly.

ok now i am really off

[quote DeeKavCoffee]@soontobe60 cisgender is like heterosexual, if im understanding correctly.

ok now i am really off [/quote]
Gay men have been categorised as cisgender.

Ie, sex at birth is aligned with ascribed gender identity (don't question who ascribes that identity to you).

tbh, I've not seen much cisgendering of lesbians but it should follow from anyone who uses those terms or logic and hands out genders according to their own perception of someone..