Stonewall out of Welsh Government #stonewall #welshgovernment

[MerchedCymru]

More and more organisations in the UK are waking up to the fact that Stonewall appear not be acting in good faith in the guidance and advice it gives to members of its 'Champions' scheme.

We have been concerned for some time that the Welsh Government's uncritical acceptance of Stonewall's take on Equality laws in the UK will affect womens rights in Wales.

On Tuesday Merched Cymru wrote to Welsh Government to request formally that it ends its membership of the Stonewall’s Diversity Champions scheme and the related Workplace Equality Index amid concerns that the advice it provides is misleading and potentially unlawful.

We are asking our members (and anyone who is as outraged and concerned as we are) to contact their Senedd member, send them this information and ask what are they doing to support and protect womens rights in Wales, then tweet, share and get this out there!

Read our report here merchedcymru.wales/2021/06/09/merched-cymru-stonewall-wales/

Facebook: www.facebook.com/MerchedCymru
Twitter: @MerchedCymru
email: [email protected]

Aaaahhh, just seen the link to Pink News from another thread and it confirms that Kier Starmer and the Labour Party will bring in self-id if they get into government.

I'm still in a state of shock that the likelihood of the Tories being in government for aeons is less awful to contemplate than Labour somehow gaining power.

That it should come to this.

Damn. It's great that Stonewall are falling, but if the Labour Party brings in self-ID they might as well have stayed

@highame

Aaaahhh, just seen the link to Pink News from another thread and it confirms that Kier Starmer and the Labour Party will bring in self-id if they get into government.

Oh bloody hell I avoided the Prick News link hence posting the wrong one (soz). That's it then, e mails to MS and spineless career MP. Fuming. What is wrong with these people?

😂

Dragging it back to what you found about Welsh Government and Stonewall, OP, I can see that the figures you have may not be all the money Stonewall gets from WG. Looking at their last set of accounts it's impossible to tell how much Welsh Government may have paid them in fees for training or other consultancy. Being a member of the Diversity Champion Scheme seems to give you access to reduced rates for training, but not free training. Stonewall also get money from WCVA (Wales Council for Voluntary Action), so that could be WG money as well. Where will it end?

This expenditure and also changing employment policies seems completely disproportionate - as does changing the Maternity policy so that it doesn't mention mothers or breastfeeding. FFS, how many transmen or female non-binary people are working there? And how many of that, possibly tiny, number are also able to manage their dysphoria to such an extent (even though they can't cope psychologically with 'gendered language') that they are able to carry a baby and breastfeed (sorry, no way am I calling it 'chestfeeding'!).

One of the FOI releases gives some indication of how many job applicants are trans identifying (hint - not many), but it's unclear how many trans and non-binary staff WG actually have. The schemes they have seem to make them very visible and celebrated. Is this really what your average person wants? It seems controlling and very performative - performative crapping on women and mothers. I'm really shocked that women in the Cabinet who I thought were feminists have gone along with this nonsense.

I'm really shocked that women in the Cabinet who I thought were feminists have gone along with this nonsense.

This aspect really gives me brain-ache Enfys - especially our 'Social Justice Minister' - formerly our Women and Equalities Minister Jane Hutt. Helped to set up women's refuges and now insists that there is no difference between transwomen and women. And refuses to engage with anyone - including former colleagues and friends - who insists on believing in biology.

The section of MC's blog that details her meeting with Stonewall and the alacrity with which she then jumped to do their bidding left me genuinely distressed. How dare she.

@MerchedCymru I have messaged you

Back from some rather aggressive vegetable peeling ... I really can't stop thinking about the number of women who must have approved this. Granted some of the most senior women are past childbearing age, but it's like some cruel prank. As if someone somewhere has thought let's see how gullible this lot are and how many female-centred policies or facilities we can get them to give up. It's like an elaborate psychological experiment, or a piss take, and tax payers' money has been used for the heads of HR in public bodies to feel smug about their misguided sense of inclusivity while making life awkward for younger, probably more junior women. And if you're from a culture or religion that doesn't permit you to be in intimate places with members of the opposite sex they'll treat you as a bigot simply for having those protected characteristics.

I actually managed to speak to Jane Hutt about this a while back - very briefly and she was surrounded by Equality minders. She simply doesn't seem to get it. I can only assume that, if you truly believe that men are just another sort of woman, everything else follows. Single-sex provision stays women-only, we just change the definition of woman.

Sorted.

I don't think they are amenable to reason. The only hope is a legal threat or a ton of bad press. And given that we basically don't have any press in Wales, and certainly none who want to touch this with a barge pole, I guess we are up the creek without a single paddle.

I have emailed my MS but it’s Drakeford so don’t hold your breath.

The latest post from MC:

"If Welsh Government continues its membership of Stonewall’s Diversity Champions Scheme it will be a declaration that it is content to disregard the Equality Act in favour of the political agenda of an unelected lobbying organisation.
This will risk discrimination against employees on the basis of sex, sexual orientation and religion or belief and send a clear signal that some staff are valued and protected above others."

YES!!!! Exactly this. How on earth can they be so stupid!

Eluned Morgan - Health Minister think TWAW! I hope the local councils and health boards follow suit. I have received several surveys which ask for gender and sometimes quite bizarre worded questions, clearly in breach of the Equality Act. Also a local school changed to unisex toilets which none of the kids wanted. I want Stonewall out of Wales because they are dangerous to our children’s future.

Bendigedig Merched Cymru, Merched Cymru am byth 🚺⬜️🟩

@Olderbadger1

I don't think they are amenable to reason. The only hope is a legal threat or a ton of bad press. And given that we basically don't have any press in Wales, and certainly none who want to touch this with a barge pole, I guess we are up the creek without a single paddle.

Is it the Sunk Cost Fallacy? They've gone so far, they've said so much behind the scenes, they've pinned their public image on being woke and now they can't afford to row it back because it will leave them looking like fools.

I have news for them. They backed the wrong horse and there is no way out of this situation without looking like fools.

Just remembering a conversation I had with Welsh friends when the House of Lords got the ball rolling on the wording of the maternity bill. At the time I said that I suddenly understood the importance of a second layer of government which was free of the need to play to the audience in order to win the next election. My contacts in Wales joked that they needed a House of Lords there.

Is it just coincidence that Wales and Scotland seem to be so deeply in thrall to Stonewall? I know that in both cases they are doubling down because they don't want to be like England, but is it just that? Could it be that the way their governments are set up has meant that there are no checks and balances?

Both I think - there's always been the desire to be seen as 'true' socialists as opposed to the Blairite version in England, sense of pride in being progressive, determination to not be Tories plus, without a doubt, there are insufficient checks and balances and very little scrutiny.

We don't have a national media - UK papers and broadcasters generally ignore Wales entirely and there are few political commentators of any heft so no-one actually knows what the hell the Senedd is doing/not doing.

Add to that the fact that Labour have been in power here for ever, plus the significant amount of cronyism that comes from living in a small nation and it's hard to know how break through.

What's shocked me above all is the baffling unwillingness to look at actual evidence or listen to alternative voices. To pause and wonder, if only for a moment, whether you just might be wrong on this one. They aren't stupid people but they have closed minds on this issue.

And I agree with you re the HoL. I used to want it abolished. Not any longer!

I think AM’s are very stupid on the whole. They often are thick and inward looking. They don’t have much of a grasp on how people can be manipulated so have been sucked into this. Also everyone in Wales wants to be nice all of the time and not upset anyone - apart from women - who don’t count.

Maya's case has massive implications for WG - and every other organisation in Wales who is peddling Stonewall law...

From the SexMatters website...
'It is unlawful to create an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for gender critical staff or customers".

If this is the correct interpretation of the judgment then all of their HR policies and practices, training programmes, equality & diversity policies, and the general climate of fear that has been created for GC people, are all rendered unlawful.

Wow!

Here's the overview...

@Olderbadger1

Both I think - there's always been the desire to be seen as 'true' socialists as opposed to the Blairite version in England, sense of pride in being progressive, determination to not be Tories plus, without a doubt, there are insufficient checks and balances and very little scrutiny.

We don't have a national media - UK papers and broadcasters generally ignore Wales entirely and there are few political commentators of any heft so no-one actually knows what the hell the Senedd is doing/not doing.

Add to that the fact that Labour have been in power here for ever, plus the significant amount of cronyism that comes from living in a small nation and it's hard to know how break through.

What's shocked me above all is the baffling unwillingness to look at actual evidence or listen to alternative voices. To pause and wonder, if only for a moment, whether you just might be wrong on this one. They aren't stupid people but they have closed minds on this issue.

And I agree with you re the HoL. I used to want it abolished. Not any longer!

I agree with this too.

I fantasise about retiring to Pembrokeshire but this has made me sit up and think. If Wales (and Scotland, too) don't have the safety net of a second house, and now you reveal that there isn't media scrutiny and that Labour think they can do anything they want (and that missing impact assessment is a clear demonstration that they're not concerned about being accountable), it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Imagine if Wales had been completely devolved and then set off down the path of gender ideology, changing legislation as it went, with nothing to stop it. It would be like living in a theocracy.

@Shedbuilder

I fantasise about retiring to Pembrokeshire but this has made me sit up and think. If Wales (and Scotland, too) don't have the safety net of a second house, and now you reveal that there isn't media scrutiny and that Labour think they can do anything they want (and that missing impact assessment is a clear demonstration that they're not concerned about being accountable), it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Imagine if Wales had been completely devolved and then set off down the path of gender ideology, changing legislation as it went, with nothing to stop it. It would be like living in a theocracy.

It wants to bring in Self ID and as you say, no second house to veto unreasonable legislation.

@Olderbadger1 I agree - I remember reading the thread two years ago about the "lost" impact assessment that somehow the Welsh govt had lost in both English and Welsh...

@FOIrequester if you are still about, you did such amazing work on this in 2019, I'd love to hear any updates if you haven't given it all up as a bad job by now!! (which would be totally understandable!)

Post from Merched Cymru about the implications of Maya's case. They are potentially game-changing - but only if Welsh Government (and all the other captured institutions) take notice. Otherwise it will be down to individuals to bring discrimination claims, one by one. It shouldn't be this difficult!

Great summary by the way MC!

merchedcymru.wales/2021/06/11/the-forstater-judgment-implications-for-wales/?fbclid=IwAR1HAYUJ97uk0Ey58Z8oJZ9rp6ySzLIOrjjAttZ_DRgaJAc-f2tZ7GJ4vTM#more-1186