The horrific reality of child MtF transition

[StellaAndCrow]

I've just watched this video of Buck Angel interviewing Scarlett, a 19 yr old transwoman. She was given puberty blockers at 13 then cross-sex hormones.

I’m referring to Scarlett as “she” as Buck does in the title - I’m not sure what she prefers, but she does point out that her peers avoid talking to her for fear of offending her.

Scarlett tells her story of realising as a boy that she liked guys, hating her body at puberty, and thinking that she had to be “pretty” to attract guys. She went to a therapist to try to figure things out - was asked how she felt about long hair and dresses “I didn’t understand what gender identity was. I just knew I had effeminate mannerisms and liked guys". “They wanted to make it all about clothes”

I found the video absolutely gutting. She comes across as a lovely and thoughtful person, in such a difficult situation. She talks about how, when starting blockers:

• she was told she could go back at any time
• she was told that she ould be sterile, but didn’t know she would be castrated, lose her sexual function and suffer from atrophy
• she wasn’t told about the social and relationship difficulties:

“it’s the exact awkward existence I was trying to avoid as a feminine gay guy”

She also mentions “because my puberty was paused, the people who do want to be with me are not the most savoury of people”

Yes but the private doctors also stand to be sued - they must know that. Of course they benefit from lots of people having private surgery but to be sued for not disclosing side effects could end their career.

Haven't I read that they get them all to sign disclaimers so the surgeons can't be sued?

@Masdintle

Haven't I read that they get them all to sign disclaimers so the surgeons can't be sued?

I can't see that working. The basic principle for any treatment is that the patient (or their parents to the extent the patient lacks capacity) needs to give informed consent.

When documents are signed they are the patient giving consent for the treatment. If it turns out that the consent was flawed because it was not informed then no consent was given, and any protection the surgeons and other medics had falls away.

The patient can't sign away the need for consent to be informed, certainly not in British law, and I'd need surprised if they can in US law, otherwise all medical interventions would start with the patient being asked to sign a blanket disclaimer, and medical litigation would never be a thing.

@NanaNorasNaughtyKnickers 'When documents are signed they are the patient giving consent for the treatment. If it turns out that the consent was flawed because it was not informed then no consent was given, and any protection the surgeons and other medics had falls away.'

Activists have successfully lobbied for the W.H.O. to declassify 'Gender Dysphoria' as a mental health disorder in the USA (and elsewhere I presume). If it had still been classed as a mental illness, would surgeons, puberty blocker suppliers and so on have had to act with more caution regarding consent, and be more liable legally?

I'm not having an especially wonderful week, so am probably a bit more, er emotionally labile than usual, but I can hardly bear to hear about these poor people. The lies they're being told, the omission of critical information, the lack of actual knowledge on the medical side of what is being done.... How can the people who push this live with themselves?

[quote IvyTwines2]@NanaNorasNaughtyKnickers 'When documents are signed they are the patient giving consent for the treatment. If it turns out that the consent was flawed because it was not informed then no consent was given, and any protection the surgeons and other medics had falls away.'

Activists have successfully lobbied for the W.H.O. to declassify 'Gender Dysphoria' as a mental health disorder in the USA (and elsewhere I presume). If it had still been classed as a mental illness, would surgeons, puberty blocker suppliers and so on have had to act with more caution regarding consent, and be more liable legally?[/quote]
I don't want to pretend I'm any sort of expert in this. You mean transgender-rights activists? I would guess that you're right, in that the duty owed to patients with a mental illness, and who are therefore more vulnerable, and possibly with greater problems of watertight mental capacity, must be higher. I would think that any lawyers/insurers acting on behalf of the doctors would want to see a more rigorous process for making sure that proper informed consent had been obtained so that any liability could be disclaimed.

@StrangeLookingParasite

I'm not having an especially wonderful week, so am probably a bit more, er emotionally labile than usual, but I can hardly bear to hear about these poor people. The lies they're being told, the omission of critical information, the lack of actual knowledge on the medical side of what is being done.... How can the people who push this live with themselves?

As Scarlett said “because my puberty was paused, the people who do want to be with me are not the most savoury of people”

I keep thinking about this video, the pain and grief on Scarlet's face. It's so unfair what they've done.

@NanaNorasNaughtyKnickers I presume it was trans activists who pushed for this but it's unclear. It certainly seems very convenient for the medical industry when the lawsuits increase, as one feels they inevitably will. The WHO talk of removing the "stigma" of mental illness which is a lovely thing to hear for those of us trying to counter the prejudice that mental health issues are something to be ashamed of, and want people to feel more confident to 'come out' and talk about them openly!

@toffeebutterpopcorn

I worked as a therapist back in the day - sorry but if you won’t hear then you need to seriously consider (what the kids would say these days) ‘your truth’ and how it sits in relation to reality and what’s actually best for you.

A West Indian friend of mine uses the phrase 'if you can't hear, you will feel'. She said it's an old Jamaican expression.

I didn't understand it at first, but now I really appreciate its pithy wisdom.

I'm interested in the deletions on this thread - mine and BernardBlacks. I suspect they were both for the same thing (which I won't repeat!) - but we used Scarlett's own description of what had been done to her, medically/surgically. I guess someone must have reported it; it seems to get to the crux of the matter, that people don't want young people to explicitly know the consequences of what's being done, which was exactly Scarlett's own point. It never seems to be about listening to and protecting vulnerable trans or gender dysphoric people.

we used Scarlett's own description of what had been done to her, medically/surgically. I guess someone must have reported it

It's funny how open-minded Mumsnet is about some C words

Will watch