Scared and depressed at the situation in NZ

[SunnyintheSun]

Hi, long time member but I rarely post these days. Based in NZ and read this on the news tonight:

i.stuff.co.nz/national/125347551/controversial-womens-group-granted-use-of-nelson-council-venue

Speak Up For Women is a feminist group, wanting to talk about proposed new self-ID legislation that has been introduced to the NZ Parliament after Select Committee, ie zero consultation. The group is described in the article as ‘controversial’ and has apparently been banned from some venues. How has it come to this? Not only that women’s rights to politely debate legislation and defend their existing sex-based rights are being removed but that one of our major news sources, Stuff, seems to think this is absolutely fine??

I feel scared to be a woman in NZ tonight and profoundly let down by both our Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, and by the media.

Hi Sunny.

Depressing as that sounds, that was exactly the position the UK was in a few years back. Women’s meetings were smeared as controversial and regarded as an outlier position. But slowly that is changing and those controversial groups, while still rather pilloried (as women’s groups often are) there are definite signs that political changes are afoot.

Keep pulling.

This is new to NZ, whilst it's been a prominent issue here for many years now. I remember becoming fully aware of the scale of the issue around 4 or 5 years ago in the UK, whilst it wasn't talked about in NZ at all.

An NZ family member, who had been totally disinterested in anything I had to say on the matter God not this again out of nowhere a few months ago, made a wee cynical joke to me about something connected. I was 😲 and it showed that awareness and interest is growing in NZ.

The case of Laurel Hubbard is certainly raising awareness of what this means for girls' sport, which holds great importance in NZ.

The tide is turning in NZ too.

Thanks AnyOldPrion. Yes, been watching the UK situation these last few years and it’s been an incredible grassroots effort - FPFW, all the FOIA requests, etc. I’m worried we won’t get the chance here - the legislation is being snuck in by the back door and the media have drunk the KoolAid.

Still, I’ve joined Speak Up For Women, written to my local MP and will be looking for other ways to make my concerns known - hopefully a few other NZers feel the same after reading that article!

Ah, yes, weightlifting - embarrassing but, as you say, maybe it’ll shift public opinions. I think NZ rugby is looking at the issue currently too? Meanwhile govt seems totally sold on the ‘be kind’ mantra.

You've a difficult road ahead of you in NZ and I can only hope that if there's a change in the UK this makes it smoother for you, with fewer battles to be fought.

UK, Spain, Germany and Finland (I think it was Finland) have all very recently stopped self ID laws.

This is not a done deal.

If it is being snuck in undercover your job right now is to make sure as many people as possible hear about what is happening.

Do you have friends irl who you can discuss this with?

I think what turned the tide in the UK was the huge meetings of women in the big cities, it wss inspjrational even for those who could not attend. New Zealand is far less populous country but I hope something similar can be organized in Wellington or Auckland. I have been to NZ and met many Kiwis over here, I love the nation and the people and have faith they can turn it around

This may be of interest to you, Posie Parker speaking to a NZ campaigner for women's sport.

Another NZer here and I feel much like you, Sunny. Ardern is very good at sussing out what has the cool factor. Plus, coming from marketing, she's doing a great job with ladling out Be Kind slogans. It's all very depressing.

Nonetheless, I'll write to my MP, and write to the dirtdumb venues giving SpeakUpForWomen a hard time. Maybe fire something off to Stuff and NZHerald. As Jane Clare Jones says, "Pull!"

I watched that interview @FOJN and it was excellent. Extremely heartening that some prominent and respected sportspeople have spoken out.

@SunnyintheSun I am in NZ and have to tread really carefully on this as I have a senior role in public healthcare and have to follow rules around not being publicly political.

However, I am pushing back on the self ID stuff at work by being well read on this topic and asking the right questions at work. So for example, on discussions about the use of 'people with a cervix' for communication about cervical cancer I asked if we had checked the rates of understanding of the word 'cervix' among the population with the lowest rates of screening (Maori, Pacific and lower socio economic groups). I've also raised the issue of access to prison and refuges under self ID over lunch room chats etc.

The sport thing will be a big deal here. Women's sport is huge here compared to UK and there will be outrage at the lack of fairness. I reckon if a transwoman turned up looking for a place in the national netball team it would be game over.

I’m a Kiwi, and likewise concerned.

Very heartened by this, though...

www.google.com/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2021/06/former-olympians-challenge-sport-nz-draft-guidelines-on-transgender-athletes-want-more-consultation.amp.html

Another Kiwi here. For the last few months my sister Illyria47 and I have emailed and written to everyone in the government and the opposition who hold portfolios relevant to Sex Self ID, Conversion therapy, Hate speech, NZ Statistics, Corrections and Police (crime stats) asking them to fully explain where they stand with regard to the need to protect women's rights around these issues. The responses have not been encouraging from government ministers, with the Minister for Women and Internal Affairs Jan Tinetti refusing to say whether women's right to sex segregated spaces will still be protected if Self ID is passed without any safeguards.

Goodness knows with all the links and material we sent to opposition MPs they could attack the government strongly on these issues, but I do wonder if they will when the time comes to debate the bills. New Zealand seriously needs an advocate like Senator Claire Chandler of Tasmania but just at the moment I cannot see anyone on either side of the house who would be willing to step up to the plate.

Just recently we have emailed our Mayor condemning his action in cancelling a SUFW meeting due to take place in our city later this month. No response as yet. We emailed our two local MPs, Labour and National, with our concerns over the mayor's action, but again, no response.

At least Judith Collins, the Leader of the Opposition, stood up for free speech. Not a peep out of the PM, unless I missed it somehow.
What heartens us is seeing all the women on sites like Broadsheet NZ, SUFW, WomensLiberationAoteatoa, and any number of women, and men, who express their support for women's rights on their facebooks and twitter feeds. It's encouraging not to feel alone.

The media are picking up on transgendered males in sport, mainly due to persistent pressure from women, but NZ Sport seems unconcerned about any fairness issues to date. Another email to send.

Just have to keep up the pressure with letters, emails etc., and hope that they eventually bear fruit. It has been inspiring to see how persistence and courage on the part of women in the UK and around the world is making a difference at last.

Is Diversity Works NZ the equivalent of Stonewall UK?

Sympathy, OP. I am in Canada and so depressed about it that I have almost been squashed into a complete poo of inaction. I managed to rouse myself the other day to write a supportive email to my local library which has been under fire from the Pride organisation for having a supposedly transphobic book.

I don't know what it is about the former colonies, but we all seem to be deep in this shit.

Great news about the letter by the athletes in New Zealand

Omg, thank you for the messages, so good to know I’m not alone. Good interview, @FOJN and I hadn’t seen the news hub letter, that’s heartening. Liberty, thank you for questioning your colleagues, it’s so tough.

You have all inspired me. Will write to the media asking for some coverage and also to the councils deplatforming womens groups. If anyone has any other good ideas, I’m there!

Fellow kiwi. Yup, it's depressing alright. NZ is so behind the 8-ball with this stuff. Not helped by an inept media pushing an unscientific and anti-intellectual agenda. Was once a big fan of National Radio but turned off forever a month or so ago when I heard Kim Hill call women questioning gender idealogy 'terfs'. Am hopeful about what is happening in the UK however and we need to cling to hope wherever we can find it. NZ will no doubt follow the UK ... in about five years time (and we think we're progressive HA!). Don't give up the fight. The law has not been passed yet, and the letter signed by 41 of some of our biggest sports stars calling for further review of NZ sport policy makes me hopeful (am off to buy some ribbons). www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2021/06/kiwi-marathon-great-allison-roe-concerned-about-future-of-women-s-sport-as-transgender-debate-grows.html

Just read the Newshub link about the letter from 41 Olympians. Towards the end, the gumball at Sport NZ saying, Oh our priority is being inclusive. Everyone wants to be included. Focus less on winning.

Somehow I'm picturing him as a WALL-E type blob who's never participated in any competitive sport. He obviously knows exactly nothing about them.

And that's who's coming up with this garbage.

Have you seen this today? I am massively heartened by the response to this poll! Kiwis love their sport and fairness does not equal inclusion at the cost of women. www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2021/06/question-of-the-day-should-trans-women-athletes-compete-in-the-same-category-as-cis-women.html

Not available in my regon

Thanks Youngheart. Ignored the reference to ‘cis’ women and voted anyway! Results are currently 98pc ‘no’, just 8pc ‘yes’. Perhaps it’s just the public service that’s gone crazy. Doesn’t sound like much public support for this at all??

The cis bit maybe added to the vehemence of the voting!

Omg, the Save Women’s Sport letter has even made Stuff and for once the coverage is pretty balanced. I can’t believe it - Stuff have been so blatantly misogynistic in their reporting to date, what a shift:

i.stuff.co.nz/sport/women-in-sport/125381411/olympians-an-all-black-and-former-sports-stars-open-letter-to-grant-robertson-over-transgender-guidelines

There’s even a petition on the NZ Parliament website - 1 day left to sign - to extend the consultation period on transgender participation in women’s sports. Won’t link but google Save Women’s Sports NZ will take you there. Honestly, I had no idea. Have learned so much in the last 48 hours!