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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Valentina Petrillo could this year become the first openly transgender woman to compete at the Paralympics.

19 replies

IceLace100 · 05/06/2021 18:33

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57338207

Wtf?

OP posts:
Erikrie · 05/06/2021 18:52

Yep the physical differences are very obvious.

IceLace100 · 05/06/2021 18:58

I just don't get it. Please tell me not just me!

OP posts:
GNCQ · 05/06/2021 19:02

In fact, it was only last September that she ran her first official race as a female para-athlete - at the Italian Paralympics Championship, where she won gold in the 100m, 200m and 400m T12 events

Yeah let's apply the pronouns are Rohypnol test here....

334bu · 05/06/2021 19:06

As a 47 year old it would be quite an achievement to excel in any sporting event unless of course one had an inbuilt advantage over all the other competitors.

MrsTerryPratchett · 05/06/2021 19:09

"I asked myself, 'Valentina, if you were a biological woman and had a Valentina, a trans, racing against you, how would you feel?' And I gave myself answers - astonishment, confusion and doubt. I would have those things as a woman. So I believe these doubts and questions are legitimate."

So Valentina wouldn't like it but does it anyway.

WoolOfBat · 05/06/2021 19:50

I think Valentina is very lucky. Valentina competed with males and won several medals when Valentina was younger (41?). Now Valentina has a chance to win medals at 47 by competing with biological women....

The fairness of it is another discussion

andyoldlabour · 05/06/2021 20:12

WoolOfBat

I don't think it is lucky or fair, it is an absolute disgrace. Petrillo "won" 3 gold medals against women last year in the Italian championships at the age of 46. That just doesn't happen in any normal sporting scenario.

Svag · 05/06/2021 20:15

It will take at least 10 more years of research to fully understand the effect of hormone therapy, Harper says. In some sports trans women will need a handicap, she suggests, but how much handicap isn't yet clear.

"Hormone therapy won't turn trans women into cis women but the goal, in terms of sports, is to mitigate the advantages that trans women gain by virtue of going through male puberty, to the point where you can have meaningful competition between trans women and cis women."

Why should women be penalised by having handicapped men slotted into their races? If it’s as simple as that, everyone could run together and a handicappping system introduced. No need for either women’s sports or the Paralympics.

Imagine the outcry if men were expected to compete with women under such a system. How long before the complaints would start about the unfairness of the system when women began beating men?

I was also struck by that comment MrsTerryPratchett. That the women would feel righteous fury hasn’t even crossed Petrillo’s mind.

WoolOfBat · 05/06/2021 20:22

andy I was being sarcastic (I am very angry at the moment). The concept of moving from the male category to the female once it is clear that there are no medals to be won for the individual in the male category is so ridiculous.

I am sorry if that didn’t come through...

Maybe if women are allowed to identify as younger, those who are beaten by transwomen in the Olympics can win school races and get some scholarships...?

MrsTerryPratchett · 05/06/2021 20:46

Imagine the outcry if men were expected to compete with women under such a system. How long before the complaints would start about the unfairness of the system when women began beating men?

That would be awesome. I'd start running about 20 seconds before Usain Bolt. Gold for MrsTP.

andyoldlabour · 06/06/2021 12:54

WoolOfBat

Apologies, I am angry about it as well. Just one sport after another capitulating to a tiny minority, in order to destroy women's sport.

Erikrie · 06/06/2021 12:57

Imagine the outcry if men were expected to compete with women under such a system. How long before the complaints would start about the unfairness of the system when women began beating men?

Indeed. There would be uproar.

Cismyfatarse · 06/06/2021 18:32

It is bloody awful.

Plus, my understanding is that Paralympic athletes have fairly strict criteria as to which races they can run, based on an assessment of their ability / physical form.

So, this person might be carefully scrutinised to check this person is the right category for disability but waved through so this person can competent against women.

Cailleach1 · 06/06/2021 20:11

@MrsTerryPratchett

Imagine the outcry if men were expected to compete with women under such a system. How long before the complaints would start about the unfairness of the system when women began beating men?

That would be awesome. I'd start running about 20 seconds before Usain Bolt. Gold for MrsTP.

They are keeping things fair for men, though. I think someone with blades was banned from running against the other men as it was deemed to give an unfair advantage.

Oh, yes. Just women being stolen from by a runner with a different physique which gives them an unfair advantage. A physique which would be the norm in men's running.

OhSister · 06/06/2021 20:53

Apologies, I am angry about it as well. Just one sport after another capitulating to a tiny minority, in order to destroy women's sport.

I don't want to nitpick on language when we are in agreement that this is disgraceful and harmful to women. But I would avoid the 'tiny minority' language, which feeds into the perception that people like Valentina are the most vulnerable ever group of people, and also so vanishing in number as to render moot any feminist concerns about the broad implications of gender ideology for women.

The characteristic of Valentina's that is relevant here - which is sex - does not put Valentina in any 'tiny minority'. Valentina is part of the 50% of the population who share the characteristic of male sex, a characteristic which, in addition to social, economic, and political advantage in general., gives them distinct and substantial physical advantages in sport. Therefore there is already a category in sport appropriate for Valentina should Valentina wish to participate in sport.

This person may be part of any other number of tiny minorities to do with personality and preferences - maybe Val is also among the 'tiny minority' of people whose favourite Bond is Timothy Dalton, or whose favourite Beatles song is Octopus' Garden, or who like to wear socks with sandals. Maybe a maths genius or a psychic. Those personality traits would all put Valentina in the minority in society, yet have nothing to do with which sports category is the appropriate one for Val and the other 50% of the population who are male. Val's predilection for a feminine name and pronouns, or for wearing dresses or painting fingernails despite being male may also be a minority interest / personality trait, but it as relevant to which sport category Val belongs in as any other aspect of Val's personality. Which is to say it's not at all relevant.

howard97A · 07/06/2021 13:35

Valentina Petrillo could this year become the first openly transgender woman to compete at the Paralympics

What a shameful achievement !

334bu · 07/06/2021 18:19

mobile.twitter.com/Radfem_Italia/status/1401787173389496320

Seems Italian female athletes not very happy about Valentina.

YellowFish12 · 07/06/2021 23:12

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4262123-Paralympic-male-athletes-like-winning-against-women-too

I don’t understand why the sporting community as a whole isn’t up in arms about this. Do men really think this is fair?!

334bu · 07/06/2021 23:48

I don’t understand why the sporting community as a whole isn’t up in arms about this. Do men really think this is fair?!

Of course they don't but they don't really care about female sport so it was easier to just accept the trans push for inclusion. They didn't even pretend to ask for female opinion nor consider the differences between male and female performances.

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