Paralympic male athletes like winning against women too

[YellowFish12]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57338207

The photos are ridic, huge man celebrating beating women in a rcce.

I really hare the way the BBC has quoted verbatim the "sex assigned at birth" crap and makes a million references to "cis women".

Maybe I should identify as having some sot of disability and go compete in the Paralympics? I think I might identify as only having one arm, and compete in swimming.

Also what's with all the third person talk? Is it a translation thing?

Yes, translation from Newspeak into English.

The sheer hypocrisy is mind blowing. Trans athletes, to be validated in their gender identity , must be allowed to compete in a sex category where they have an overwhelming advantage over other competitors. However, when they are at a disadvantage in the male category, there is no longer any need for these trans athletes to have their gender identity validated. Their gender identity is obviously only important when it gives them an unbeatable advantage

The thing with sport is that if it's not fair, it's completely pointless. That's why drugs are banned, so that competitors don't have an unfair advantage. Having transwomen compete against women makes it absolutely pointless for women to train and compete in sport.

@JellySlice

The first part of the article, the part about the trans athlete is fantastically garbled. If it is put in chronological order, it becomes blindingly obvious that this is not about fair access to sport, but about validating one person's desires.

At the age of 41 (ie pre-transition) [Fabrizio] won 11 national titles in three years in the male T12 category for athletes with visual impairment.

Valentina started living as a woman in 2018.

Six months after starting treatment [Valentina] had lost about 11 seconds in the 400m and 2.5 seconds in the 200m.

[Valentina] is now 47... it was only last September that [Valentina] ran as a female para-athlete - at the Italian Paralympics Championship, [and] won gold in the 100m, 200m and 400m T12 events.

"Better to be a slow happy woman than a fast unhappy man."

Slow? Hardly!

Well, a slow “woman” who is faster than all the other women for some unknown reason.......

I wonder how old were the females this person was racing against.

In the Sept 2020 Italian Paralympic trials:

400m W T12 be results: two other athletes, YOB 1999 and 2002.

100m W T12 results: three other athletes, YOB 1995, 1968 and 2005.

A pregnant woman over 35 is termed a geriatric mother. I wonder how many women over 35 are competing at the games.

We’ve seen appalling treatment of Naomi Osaka this week who has been accused of faking her mental health concerns and in the next page we get this. The commentators who are quick to jump on the ‘unfairness’ of a woman who refuses to do a press conference but can’t comment on this? We see you.

@JellySlice

Allowing trans women to complete fairly in women's sport is complex in the same way that the motion of the planets was complex when they tried to make it work with Earth at the centre.

Agreed- Perfectly put!

@Paralithic

I wonder how old were the females this person was racing against.

In the Sept 2020 Italian Paralympic trials:

400m W T12 be results: two other athletes, YOB 1999 and 2002.

100m W T12 results: three other athletes, YOB 1995, 1968 and 2005.

where did you find that please? thanks

@FuriousAndFrustrated

And while we're talking about the BBC, this anti-Mumsnet article annoyed me too:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57285368

"On the UK's biggest online community for mums she didn't get the support she was hoping for.

"I went on to Mumsnet to find people like me, who would tell me it was going to be OK and that the way I was feeling was totally normal," she says.

Instead she was greeted by a wall of harsh judgement.

"People said I was ungrateful and didn't deserve to have children," she says. "I was told Social Services should take my children away.""

This isn't the Mumsnet I recognise.

She went on about being slagged off on Tattle as well.

Not a trace of her.

Results are here:

www.fidalservizi.it/risultati/2020/Jesolo_FISPES2020/GaraC12.htm

www.fidalservizi.it/risultati/2020/Jesolo_FISPES2020/GaraA12.htm

I didn’t find the 200m results.

'Petrillo was hurt that some of the women at one event refused to be photographed with her, but says she understands their reaction.

"I asked myself, 'Valentina, if you were a biological woman and had a Valentina, a trans, racing against you, how would you feel?' And I gave myself answers - astonishment, confusion and doubt. I would have those things as a woman. So I believe these doubts and questions are legitimate."

However, she defends her right to compete in the women's category.

"I respect and comply with the IOC and World Athletics rules, I do the tests. I don't feel like I'm stealing anything from anyone."'

Ummmmm

Allowing trans women to complete fairly in women's sport is complex in the same way that the motion of the planets was complex when they tried to make it work with Earth at the centre.

Sports authorities will go down a never ending path of adding nuances and special cases and exceptions and tests and checks and balances and tweaking to try to make it work but new problems and flaws will keep popping up because it's all based on a fundamental error.

Spot on.

And any handicaps/special arrangements would simply reinforce the fact that some competitors differ from the rest of the group. Which would be, you know, unkind.

The DM has a similar article (I know, I know!), take a look at their headline image (the mid running one). If there was any doubt that we are talking about a biological male, that picture would seal the deal for me.

@Paralithic

Results are here:

www.fidalservizi.it/risultati/2020/Jesolo_FISPES2020/GaraC12.htm

www.fidalservizi.it/risultati/2020/Jesolo_FISPES2020/GaraA12.htm

I didn’t find the 200m results.

thanks

The DM has a similar article

Pictured wearing what’s basically a jockstrap.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9652507/Visually-impaired-trans-woman-47-wants-trans-Paralympian.html

Not much to say ...

"I asked myself, 'Valentina, if you were a biological woman and had a Valentina, a trans, racing against you, how would you feel?' And I gave myself answers - astonishment, confusion and doubt.”

You’ve given yourself some very comfortable answers, Valentina. But more likely reactions would be rage and contempt - not only for you, but also for the governing bodies that force women to go along with the absurd pretence.

@howard97A

"I asked myself, 'Valentina, if you were a biological woman and had a Valentina, a trans, racing against you, how would you feel?' And I gave myself answers - astonishment, confusion and doubt.”

You’ve given yourself some very comfortable answers, Valentina. But more likely reactions would be rage and contempt - not only for you, but also for the governing bodies that force women to go along with the absurd pretence.

Was going to say the same myself. Valentina clearly has no concept of thinking like a biological woman and Valentina admits being sexist pre transition.

Clearly nothing has changed. No transwoman, who respects women would compete in women’s event. The way they perceive an (inferior) woman to think has no bearing on the reality. Cos y’know women’s thoughts and feelings centre around unicorns and sparkles.

@JellySlice

Also what's with all the third person talk? Is it a translation thing?

Yes, translation from Newspeak into English.

Simply astonishing that Paralympic sports, which are well used to the difficulties of rigourously categorising people for events, often against the preferences of the athlete in question, have failed to spot and prevent the glaring miscategorisation here. Women’s sports are not a consolation category for weakened athletes in possession of Y chromosomes.

You know what else happens to women in their forties/fifties that makes performance go off a cliff? Menopause. It’s a smack in the face for women masters competitors on every single level.

If it’s only about inclusion, why wasn’t the offer to be invited to run and train with the other athletes enough?

That is such a good point about men who transition in their 40s/50s competing against women who are going through menopause. Such a stark comparison.

Nice summation of BBC bias with this story

mobile.twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1401054413574258688

The fact that we have to pay for this crap.

@bitheby

This is at least interesting from the trans academic doing the research into advantage in sport

"Hormone therapy won't turn trans women into cis women but the goal, in terms of sports, is to mitigate the advantages that trans women gain by virtue of going through male puberty, to the point where you can have meaningful competition between trans women and cis women."

One of the first times I've seen an acknowledgment that there is currently an advantage that needs to be mitigated.

This.

What I'd like to know is what's being done to enable trans men to participate in men's sport so that the disadvantage they currently have is mitigated and they can compete on a level playing field.

When it can be shown that equal efforts are being made in both spheres then and only then can we talk about the possibility of trans women competing against women.