When men intimidate women but don’t break the law. What’s the best thing to do?

[Nilbog]

I feel like this happens a lot.

Shouting, driving aggressively, refusing to move out of the way, standing over women to show how much bigger they are etc.

It seems futile to report these incidents to the police but in my opinion they demonstrate a pattern of behaviour that should be take more seriously.

When I have made reports to police, I feel like I’m treated like I’m blowing things out of proportion and that nothing can (or rather will) be done.

So, what’s the best course of action? How/when will intimidating behaviour ever be seen for what it really is (power and control) and when will men be told not to do this?

Or should we continue to be small to protect ourselves in the name of self preservation?

I called the police once as my ex wouldn’t leave. Two officers arrived, the female officer spoke to ex and told me he said “she’s not normally like this”.

The context is too long to explain but he was shouting “I’m not leaving” and yet he was suggesting my behaviour was off balance.

What's that social media account where you can report this and they go out and chalk an account of what happened?

Like this one in Edinburgh?

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/defiant-edinburgh-women-chalk-vile-20457430

Chalkback London: www.facebook.com/pg/catcallsofldn/posts/

Thanks Embarassing

I like the hashtags so that people can go and find out more.

OP can you raise it with the police commissioner?

That's a really good initiative embarrasing

Small acts of resistance. When we can and to the best of our capacity. Support other women when we see it happen. Name it when we feel safe to do so. Talk about it. Believe and support other women when they talk about it.

And every now and then, maybe once every decade, I lose my living shit and shout, "just fuck off you arsehole". It hasn't happened in a while though. Possibly because the sexual harassment has slowed to a trickle in my late 40s. Hasn't stopped though.

I called the police once as my ex wouldn’t leave.

@Nilbog - question for you about your ex ... did he do any of the things in this 8 stage timeline? (graphic attached) It's by Jane Monckton-Smith expert in VAWG. If your EX did any of these things I believe you have rights but I'm no expert. hopefully someone who knows can advise.

www.facebook.com/uniofglos/videos/2990124711003647

@FindTheTruth. Yes, but the police didn’t ask about any of that.

mrsterrypratchett thank you. My small act of resistance got me in to,a spot of bother earlier today.

I wish I was better at plotting revenge...

This is a really good question OP.

With driving I refuse to be bullied and just stick to the speed limit watching them get more and more irate. If they do something like dangerously overtake I flash my lights (sometimes, and if I’m worked up).

For other things, I guess the MN “Did you mean to be so rude?” could come in handy. Or just a “sorry, I didn’t catch that, could you say it again?”

So there are 2 things here

1. abusive partner - call the police or Woman's Aid Helpline www.nationaldahelpline.org.uk/

2. aggressive men in public - ?

It's a good question OP. I'm not an expert, hopefully someone who is will answer. But if someone recognises the behaviours, "As soon as they see it, victims and professionals are able to say, 'Oh my God, I've got a case at stage three', or 'My relationship is at stage five'," I once had a scary road rage incident and reported it on Police 111 and it was followed up with a visit to the man (but only because I had a second witness - passenger in the car). For other things, like standing over you I don't know. But I would think you can report it.

Just to check... are you safe now?

I have history

1. Extremely abusive father (beat me etc)
2. Dishes out mild praise and reeled me back in over and over again
3. Apart from one decent boyfriend that my parents ridiculed as 'boring' and not having 'ambition' I've had two abusive marriages that ended in divorce -love bombing, then abuse and then divorce
4. 4-5 abusive partners either emotional or financial

Yet my father calls himself a feminist etc -didn't stop him pushing my mother down the stairs when she was pregnant with me though.

I feel rage though........ events for the last few months have triggered my childhood abuse and looking at it -it is engrained. His father abused him -he abuses. He abused my mother -she enables and abuses me -as did siblings. My ex had contact with my son he is so emotionally abusive I just worry about my son. It's awful. What will stop it? Facing it. Making absent father pay for their children and being put in prison when they don't. Locking up abusive man who abuse on any level. The law needs to stop making excuses.

With driving, I try to make it clear I or my passenger have clocked their numberplate. Seems to help. No other interaction, ignore, ignore, ignore.

Though I did love the scene in Promising Young Woman where she gets out of the car holding a metal bar and trashes a badly behaved driver's car. Ill advised in real life obviously but cathartic on screen!

IMO the best thing to do is treat each incident as a unique case, and use your best judgement. Use whatever strategy you feel is best to get through the incident, and then decide whether to report or not.
If its part of a pattern of abuse by the same person, keep an incident diary.

My next door neighbour came over to rant about something to do with a fence.

He literally stood over me, arching his chest and shoulders over into my space.

My adrenaline was thumping but I managed to appear totally calm and nonchalant while pointing out he was in the wrong.

He stood over me the whole conversation until he realised I would not back down and slunk off to Google the matter. I said, 'you do that...'

Never heard from him again.

I wouldn't expect everyone to be able to do this, I found it tough even though I knew he was a basic bully and I have no real history of being physically or emotionally abused.

Another man stopped his car in the middle of the road at a junction to get out and tell me off for beeping at him when he almost crashed in to me as he made an illegal manoeuvre. He lectured me about overreacting (I did to be fair). I think he wanted me to wind down my window but I just gestured to his car in the middle of the road while I was blocked on the junction. He gave up when he realised I wasn't in the mood for a lecture and slunk back to his car.

So I deal with it by stubbornly standing my ground.

But obviously I know that's not an option for everyone, and not always an option for me.

Campaign for some changes in the law to make some things illegal is one thing.

I think there is value in reporting these things to the police. There isn’t going to be a effective response but the more often that people report things like this, the more it comes to be recognised as a problem.

It reminds me of the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill case and how people didn’t seem to grasp that just because sexual harassment is rife it didn’t make it acceptable.

The more we point these things out the more they come to be recognised as wrong.

@newnortherner111

But it's not just about creating the laws. It's about making the police actually listen to women and act.

How many times do we hear a woman has been injured/killed and it comes out that she went to the police repeatedly about harassment from the killer, which is a crime, and the police did nothing. We only hear about those because someone ended up dead. Imagine how much it actually happens and we just never find out. The police ignore complaints of harassment from women. Its illegal... but nothing happens.

leafstamp I find when I refuse to back down the man’s behaviour escalates.

The particular incident today was a man didn’t like me not reversing. So he became verbally aggressive.

I am safe findthetruth thank you for checking. I’m still scared because the man knows where I live but I don’t want to live in fear (I’m just having violent thoughts towards him instead).

I’m sorry to hear about your experiences lamaperwinkle

I’ve had enough of men exerting their power and control over me.

growupbeans I haven’t seen the film but I can understand the frustration and feeling like there is little recourse so taking matters in to their own hands instead.

When I clocked the number plate today, he just did the same. Perhaps he wants to use it to report me for not moving out of his way when he was blocking my right of way.

I like your style Pengwyn I react and then the man has to outdo me so things escalate quickly.

I’ve experienced similar behaviours a number of times so it makes me feel like I’m a trouble maker but I’m fed of blaming myself when some dickhead raises his voice at me.

The point about the guy in the car in the situation you described, it sounds like he was keen to point out your reaction but did he stop to consider his own behaviour?

I’ve been disappointed with the responses I’ve had from the police thelegohooverer telling me to make sure I lock my doors was not the best advice I’ve ever received.

I agree that some behaviour is so entrenched that we barely notice that it’s unacceptable.

@Nilbog

I like your style Pengwyn I react and then the man has to outdo me so things escalate quickly.

I’ve experienced similar behaviours a number of times so it makes me feel like I’m a trouble maker but I’m fed of blaming myself when some dickhead raises his voice at me.

The point about the guy in the car in the situation you described, it sounds like he was keen to point out your reaction but did he stop to consider his own behaviour?

Exactly right about the man in the car. I think it hit him that he was calling me out for overreacting by... Overreacting... he looked like he felt a right tit when I gestured at the situation he'd created on the junction.

It's not easy to keep calm, I'm not saying I can always do it by any means!!

In the fence situation I knew he was a nasty bully cause he shouts at kids playing innocently and in the car situation I was safe in my locked car!