Trans101 training at work

[MintTeaLady]

I have never posted here before, so please take it easy on me, I’m trying!

I’ve returned to work from maternity leave and I need to do a brain dump here and figure out what, if anything, I should do in response to what I have seen happen since I’ve been gone. I work for a large professional services firm.

The first thing is that the women’s network has been rebranded as the “gender balance network”. This is in the name of the goal of “inclusivity across all genders”. I asked a close colleague what happened and my pointed retort of “so they’ve removed the word woman” received a blank look. I don’t think I have a safe friend at work to discuss my concerns with.

I have noticed that some of the very senior staff have started to include pronouns in their email signatures, as have the new graduates.

Today all members of the “gender balance network” received an invite to training about transgender and non-binary inclusion and trans 101. This has pushed me over the edge so to speak - the women’s network is clearly no more.

I have quite big career progression plans and I am definitely nervous to rock the boat. I also really want to do something, anything really, to make a point.

I had considered replying to the invite to the trans101 training and asking for more information about who was running it as a starting point.

Are there any other neutral ways that you suggest I could ask more questions? I fear it’s too bold to ask outright about exactly how the women’s network become the gender balance network, but maybe I just need a push.

Is it towing or toeing?

@QuentinBunbury

Is it towing or toeing?

Toe - although I think 'tow' is evolving its own meaning.

www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/toe-the-line.html

Thank you!

@QuentinBunbury

I'd join then doggedly stick to raising women's issues E.g. any discrepancies in numbers of men vs women indicating women don't feel included in certain teams Sexual harassment at work Making sure meetings and workshops take into account that women might need more comfort breaks than men to change san pro Recognising the potential for women to have imposter syndrome abd be getting gendered feedback about their personal style The impact of domestic abuse on working women and how to recognise signs of it and support women at work who may be abused

This approach makes sense to me. If you don't feel you can raise objections you can still suggest items about women. You definitely won't be the only person with your views, just that others will be reluctant to speak out as well.

Memorably at one conference, instead of just introducing themselves like every other fucker on the panel, one burst into full song 🙄 clearly being on the panel wasn't enough attention and more was needed....

@LivingLaVidaCovid this made me genuinely scoff out loud!

Sorry OP - no advice, but it's a shit position to be in.

Depends what you want to prioritise.

Career support - maybe start a professional women's group of your own, separate from work.

To strike back against this policy change - I would bide your time. Don't implement things you disagree with, like pronouns in your email. See what the change really looks like - it might be quite shallow, or more about genuine equality than you fear.

@oldwomanwhoruns

for you OP, what a dreadful no-win situation to be in.

I'd avoid lying!! The dominoes are starting to fall, EHRC and ACAS have pulled out of stonewall. When the tide turns, you want to be able to say that you DIDN'T go along with the woke nonsense.

Would there be any chance for you to set up an alternative group? Call it the 'mothers group'. Resist forces trying to turn it into a parents group, say you want to talk about horrendously embarrassing medical things, episiotomy issues, milk expressing etc., so women would not want to talk about these things in front of men
Then start campaigning for women's rights... keep the men out of your loos etc

It's a bit weak as an idea I know, but you really are in a corner.

I’d love to do this! I have an informal mother’s support group in my own team for a few of us, but wider than that - you guessed it, there’s the parents network!

I’d go to the session as objecting about it taking place at all would seem transphobic. We had one at work and it was fine - basically never ask trans colleagues any questions about being trans. Although I am GC, there was nothing there I found objectionable.

But putting my pronouns in my email is a step too far.

But a gender network would be the perfect place to raise the issue of pronouns and stereotype threat?

My workplace formed a new diversity group and it actually had billable hours funding which is unheard of. Normally this kind of thing is volunteer. They were having trouble filling all the slots. I had been reluctant to apply, but once I heard that, decided to take a look at the application and maybe give it a go. I had hesitated mainly because my interest lies on the intersection of advocating for both women and people with disabilities, but my disabilities are truthfully mild and recent so I thought there were people better suited to take a spot. I could tell from the form that even if I made it onto the group, it would absolutely destroy my career. They aren’t interested in advocating for people with real barriers in the workplace or working on outreach programs that would help set challenged groups on career paths that would bring them to our field. They wouldn’t want to hear about my suggestions for modifications to be more disability friendly. They just want to talk about people’s feelings.

Sadly not surprised. This happened in the universities first - women's studies were replaces with "gender studies".
Trans inclusivity/Trans rights has always been and will always been just a way to steal the few things women have been able to build for themselves. Doesn't matter if it is a rape crisis center, a religious women's charity group, or a working women's network. Men can't stand us having one single thing for ourselves. Not one!

I think, in your position, I’d bide my time. There are definite signs Stonewall’s position is wobbling. It may be that there is a domino effect and that the huge fad that has been trans-dominated “diversity” might change again into something else altogether.

Longer term, when your position is more secure, if this problem still exists, it might be possible to argue that as a woman, you no longer feel represented by the current group. You could potentially propose running a separate women’s group as with the focus off women’s rights, you can see that things have started to go backwards for women, and hopefully, if you watch carefully (potentially from the inside) you might be able to give some examples of how.

The trans lobby have been playing the long game, mostly in private and that’s something we need to bear in mind. This change in your company is the result of years of quiet undermining. I think women need to think in the long term as well as the short. Women have made great strides already in the UK. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I agree with the suggestions above of joining in and raising women-specific issues. This is the forum where ideas such as mixed-sex toilets will be discussed, as well as menopause, parental leave policies etc, and the more that such issues can be viewed side by side with LGBT concerns, the more sunlight there is (and this might even result in better policies for all). If the powers that be then decide that actually women do need a separate group, it will be because they conclude that sex matters.

I’m still working through my inbox since coming back from leave. Today’s gem that I’ve found - “Transgender women are women and should always be included in any conversation about women without needing to justify their presence or fulfil a set of requirements.” Along with a link to an article regarding a surge in transphobia and increased hostility in UK wide media towards trans identities and communities.

I don’t think my poker face can handle this!

Mint you have two choices here. You Can contact whoever sent that and explain that this is in breach of UK legislation. Or you can treat it like men treat emails they can’t be bothered with and just file it in the bin.

@MintTeaLady

I have never posted here before, so please take it easy on me, I’m trying!

I’ve returned to work from maternity leave and I need to do a brain dump here and figure out what, if anything, I should do in response to what I have seen happen since I’ve been gone. I work for a large professional services firm.

The first thing is that the women’s network has been rebranded as the “gender balance network”. This is in the name of the goal of “inclusivity across all genders”. I asked a close colleague what happened and my pointed retort of “so they’ve removed the word woman” received a blank look. I don’t think I have a safe friend at work to discuss my concerns with.

I have noticed that some of the very senior staff have started to include pronouns in their email signatures, as have the new graduates.

Today all members of the “gender balance network” received an invite to training about transgender and non-binary inclusion and trans 101. This has pushed me over the edge so to speak - the women’s network is clearly no more.

I have quite big career progression plans and I am definitely nervous to rock the boat. I also really want to do something, anything really, to make a point.

I had considered replying to the invite to the trans101 training and asking for more information about who was running it as a starting point.

Are there any other neutral ways that you suggest I could ask more questions? I fear it’s too bold to ask outright about exactly how the women’s network become the gender balance network, but maybe I just need a push.

Perhaps you could push back and suggest they not erase the word woman, but also be inclusive, so: "Women and Gender Balance Network". Inclusion does not need to be erasure of categories that exist now - just builds on. That is a more positive way to push them to not push away existing people in their attempts to be inclusive. Many orgs dont seem to get that. Good luck!

@Oldermum156

Sadly not surprised. This happened in the universities first - women's studies were replaces with "gender studies". Trans inclusivity/Trans rights has always been and will always been just a way to steal the few things women have been able to build for themselves. Doesn't matter if it is a rape crisis center, a religious women's charity group, or a working women's network. Men can't stand us having one single thing for ourselves. Not one!

I'm sorry, I dont believe this is true. I think all disadvantged communities are just aiming for equality and acceptance, not to bring down somebody else. Maybe some fringe extremists, but the vast majority of LGBT folks I've encountered are just looking to have the same respect and recognition as those more advantaged than them. It's the same fight we as feminists have had for a long time, and I dont see how dividing us further advantages anyone...

I feel for you OP. I’m in the wokiest of woke industries and this kind of thing has been standard procedure for a while. I tend to disappear into the background, or be flat out with an urgent deadline, when asked to participate. It is more than just theory in my circle too. I recently had to congratulate (yet another) one of my married colleagues on deciding they are in fact a TW instead of a recreational cross-dresser as they believed for the first 4 decades of their life. People with gender identity issues seem to have extra cachet in our sector.

It’s pure cowardice but I keep my head down and make the right noises because the alternative is being persona non grata in the career I love, and then I’d lose my house as well as my vocation. If you decide to do the same for the time being for the sake of your career progression, OP, you’ll get no judgement from me.

This isn't my work, OP, but something similar at my corporate place. I hear you.

I've also just clocked that a number of my colleagues have started putting their pronouns in their signatures (all of them female despite a predominantly male workforce. Make of that what you will). To be honest when I see someone do this, in the words of Tim Minchin, "a pigeonhole stats to form and is immediately filled with pigeon"!

You're not alone, basically.

@MintTeaLady

I’m still working through my inbox since coming back from leave. Today’s gem that I’ve found - “Transgender women are women and should always be included in any conversation about women without needing to justify their presence or fulfil a set of requirements.” Along with a link to an article regarding a surge in transphobia and increased hostility in UK wide media towards trans identities and communities.

I don’t think my poker face can handle this!

I kind of want to out-woke them. If I received this email I'd reply saying that it's actually transphobic to have mentioned this at all as it's highlighted that the sender does indeed treat TW as a separate group by the fact they needed to send the email about TW as a subset of women. I.e. the email itself is attempting to 'justify their presence'.

Which is true.

Thank you for the continued solidarity and suggestions. I wish I was brave enough to try to out-woke them. Instead, I had to sit on my hands today.

To mark Pride month, there are six events happening - three of them focusing on transgender issues/external speakers. Then there were 5 top tips to being more inclusive, with number 1 being a very happy and positive suggestion of including pronouns in our signatures.

I really struggled with not replying when we were encouraged to learn about what happened in 1968 at the Stonewall pub. It felt like such an avenue in to talk about how Stonewall has changed now, whilst also being an bullet right through my career plans.