NHS gender clinic pilot - hormones after 4 weeks

[OldTurtleNewShell]

New NHS pilot intends to offer hormones to people 17+ after a second virtual appointment. Minimum wait between appointments is 4 weeks. In some instances, they'd be willing to do a surgery referral in the first one.

By undertaking the health check during your first appointment, we can be ready to start hormone therapy at your second appointment
It's worth noting that this includes virtual appointments.

Q: Can I be referred for surgery straight away?

A: Immediate referral is dependent on a number of factors. For instance, some people may be seen by our service although they have already received a diagnosis of gender incongruence from another approved provider.

Link here:www.merseycare.nhs.uk/our-services/physical-health-services/cmagic-cheshire-and-merseyside-adult-gender-identity-collaborative/cmagic-questions-and-answers/

I've archived it here because I think that may be needed in future years.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210525221830/www.merseycare.nhs.uk/our-services/physical-health-services/cmagic-cheshire-and-merseyside-adult-gender-identity-collaborative/cmagic-questions-and-answers/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20210525221830/www.merseycare.nhs.uk/our-services/physical-health-services/cmagic-cheshire-and-merseyside-adult-gender-identity-collaborative/cmagic-questions-and-answers/

How can you do a proper health check virtually? You can have high blood pressure, high cholesterol, onset diabetes, heart problems all unaware (and I guess a myriad of other things as well) and mental health issues too.

They say they do order bloodwork but I'm not sure how that works virtually. Maybe they have to go to a local clinic for that bit? TBH, the whole thing reads like rubberstamping from beginning to end.

I had a recent telephone appointment with a consultant (hormone related) my blood work has been arranged through the GP surgery.

I remember that being the vision for rapid referrals for inflammatory arthritis and similar conditions (without the virtual appointments although that option would be remarkably helpful).

It's been a vision for years for those boring conditions that can literally cripple people, destroy joints and livelihoods/education, and wreak multi-systemic havoc.

In the same way as so many have come to have a visceral response to the pinkification of sympathetic cancers while leaving the stigma or underfunding of others untouched - I should think there are substantial swathes of patients who wished similarly agile and responsive processes were available for their plain, run-of-the-mill life-altering conditions.

JFC.

This is what they want though and I think it needs to be allowed to play out. It's worrying how quickly people can be put onto medical pathways, but putting safeguards barriers in place is just fuelling the complaints about trans healthcare and rights.

And apparently Dr H is involved.

He had obviously been busy since leaving twitter.

Yup, Harrop is involved:

mobile.twitter.com/flyinglawyer73/status/1397214771112517635

I'm astonished - are they really doubling down on this? The safeguarding failure lawsuits down the line are going to destroy the NHS for everyone.

And the name, fucking hell - 'CMagic'. It's almost like mature adults grounded in reality are not their target audience.

Meanwhile after months, nay years, of asking, I'm still waiting to be referred to an NHS menopause clinic with debilitating symptoms. K.

Yup, Harrop is involved:

Of course he is. I suspect this was the path he was always planning to take. There's lots of money in having a patient for life isn't there.

17 is still a child. The judge in Kiera Bell's case said:

152. In respect of young persons aged 16 and over, the legal position is that there is a presumption that they have the ability to consent to medical treatment. Given the long-term consequences of the clinical interventions at issue in this case, and given that the treatment is as yet innovative and experimental, we recognise that clinicians may well regard these as cases where the authorisation of the court should be sought prior to commencing the clinical treatment.

• and that's just for puberty blockers.

@Erikrie

Yup, Harrop is involved:

Of course he is. I suspect this was the path he was always planning to take. There's lots of money in having a patient for life isn't there.

I'm imagining the Adam Curtis-style documentary in 15 years' time - "This is the story of how a small number of individuals captured..."

Fuck sake. It will be years and untold misery for 1000’s of people before we can have a case similar to Keira Bell for all under 25’s. It will happen, but the rukes of the game dictate that we cannot prevent harm being done. We can only act when huge damage has already been done. Even though we do know, that the brain is not fully matured until at least 25.

This is fucking outrageous.

@Fallingirl

Fuck sake. It will be years and untold misery for 1000’s of people before we can have a case similar to Keira Bell for all under 25’s. It will happen, but the rukes of the game dictate that we cannot prevent harm being done. We can only act when huge damage has already been done. Even though we do know, that the brain is not fully matured until at least 25.

Can't people who went through the NHS at this age (such as Keira) do something about it? It may be another service, but it's the same NHS and the same hormones.

I did notice someone speaking for the government (was it Liz Truss) said a while back that to deal with waiting lists at GIDS they could get local services more involved, or words to that effect. Is this what they meant?

I don't have any problem with the waiting times for children who have dysphoria being slashed.

It's the treatment once they get to the front of the queue that's the problem.

I was trying not find out more about the pilot and came across this, which has quite a lot of background about one of the people behind cmagic

www.lcrpride.co.uk/a-chat-with-tony-griffin-from-cmagic/

However, what I was actually looking for was the parameters of the pilot project. Surely the whole point is to assess costs, outcomes, risks etc, but I couldn't find anything about the criteria being used to assess the success or failure of the project?

I've seen job adverts for a new transgender clinic in my area so maybe they're creating local hubs? The advert said they're aiming to cut waiting times.

To be fair, the waiting lists are appalling at gender clinics and the long delays cause problems from distress and people buying hormones online.

It's just a shame that the GICs don't seem to have any robust guidelines or data to support them medicating young people with cross sex hormones.

"shame" being short for "whatever happened to "First Do No Harm?""

Was speaking to a mum whose child has waited three years for camhs treatment - and they were referred as an emergency.

This is what they want though and I think it needs to be allowed to play out.

I disagree that we should just let it "play out". It's young women's lifetime health that is being destroyed.

@somethinginoffensive

This is what they want though and I think it needs to be allowed to play out.

I disagree that we should just let it "play out". It's young women's lifetime health that is being destroyed.

We can't stop it though, the only way it will stop is when it implodes on itself. They have too much power, money and the victim / oppressed narrative for this to be stopped, even the Keira Bell ruling was spun to make them all the victims. I obviously don't want harm to come to people but I think we are too far in to turn back. The people responsible are the cheerleaders at the side and the professionals who have let all reason go out the window.

the only way it will stop is when it implodes on itself. and that is going to be spectacularly ugly.

I want it to happen fast, but I am also dreading it