Elliot Page undergoes “lifesaving” “top surgery”

[OnWednesdaysWeWearMink]

BBC R1 news beat has just reported that Elliot page has undergone “life saving” “top surgery”.

Here is the related web article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57239448

This reporting perpetuates the narrative that people will commit suicide if they don’t get the right sort of treatment. I find it deeply irresponsible. Does anyone know if Samaritans are tackling this sort of coverage in their media guidelines? I’d hope work is going on behind the scenes as they are a fantastic charity. (I assume they are not captured?)

A double mastectomy is usually lifesaving when it comes to breast cancer... so I find calling an elective cosmetic procedure lifesaving pretty insulting. But that’s just me being petty and not the main point.

Angry, I'm glad your DD pulled through, and I'm sorry about your friend.

Trying to treat body dysmorphia (mental illness) by changing the body seems a really odd approach, to me. Why is it not treated the same way as dysmorphia in anorexia is treated?

How did the trans community mange to make such big waves from such a small section of the population? Where did it start? Does anyone know the answer. I’ve googled but nothing!

Angrymum So sorry about your friend. How awful. for you and your family.

I do agree people underestimate how badly wrong surgery can go. For example, nerves getting cut by accident.

I cannot believe anyone thinks it's ok to cut off healthy organs. Let's see how 'Elliot' feels in 5-10 years time. I don't believe all their problems have been solved

I genuinely just feel very sorry for Page. I always thought of them as a great actor and enjoyed their performances. When Page came out as a lesbian I thought it was a very moving speech and you could see how they had suffered by having to force themselves in the public eye in a way that was inauthentic to them. As a female lesbian child star, growing up with all that pressure to be sexy Hollywood jailbait, having your appearance constantly scrutinised, being held to impossible standards, it's not surprising that they would want to opt out. In seeing interviews with Page they seem like a very vulnerable, unstable and disturbed individual, and I'm honestly not saying that with any malice. I genuinely hope their transition brings them some peace, but it feels like a quick fix panacea for all their distress. The way celebs like Jameela Jamil cheer this on will give Page some affirmation, and they'll tell you that you can be anything you want to be in Lala Land, but I feel sad for Page because you can't actually change sex, they'll always be fooling themselves. Most women are not attracted to men who are 5'2" and have the bodies of anorexic teenage boys and a very feminine face. And a vagina.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Yes, teens with gender-related.distress dying by suicide is so terribly amusing, isn't it.

Do you not think that we care, desperately care, about the well-being of all young people? Because I do. I can't tell you how much I care for anyone suffering distress but for many of them, having a double mastectomy will cause them more distress or at best won't alleviate their distress because it wasn't the underlying problem.

We care. That's why we're all here posting about it.

@Koolandorthegang

It’s interesting that you decided you wanted to start a thread about media reporting of something about a trans person and you went straight to the Feminism Board to post your thread.

Well, whenever someone posts about a trans issue on Mumsnet in AIBU or Chat, there are always posts saying 'why cant you keep this on the feminist board rather than bringing it all over MN?'

So in what section is it OK to discuss women cutting off their healthy body parts and being celebrated as role models for it?

@Novelusername "it's not surprising that they would want to opt out."

Page could have quit the industry once they reached adulthood. There must be thousands of young actors who would love to be doing what Page said they found so agonising - so why not just quit the public eye and the male gaze and go and work on a ranch or something? If you're someone like a royal prince then ducking out of public life is really hard but actors can simply quit, go off, lead a quiet life, and at that relatively young age start again, retrain doing something new and - crucially - not in an industry that is so much geared around how you look!

The strangest thing about all this to me is how little it's questioned outside of radical feminism. A successful, beautiful, female movie star, really someone as privileged as you can get, hates being a woman so much that she would rather identify as a man. As far as the media tells us what women are supposed to aspire to be, a movie star is supposedly at the pinnacle of success for a woman. You'd think more feminists would at least have some analysis to offer on this, would try to unpick why someone like Page would feel the way they do, how the toxic expectations for females in the film industry might have had an influence, but only rad fems dare to even go there. Why is everyone so afraid of even discussing this? Who's pulling all the strings to create this compliance with a narrative that must never be questioned? Why doesn't the BBC report on trans issues as they would with anything else, showing different sides to the story - ROGD, the dangers of cross sex hormones, trans widows, fake suicide claims, NHS whistleblowers? Why is there so much bias constantly shown on this issue? It's sinister.

I think it's because of the Stonewall and similar teachings that questioning trans ideology at all, or questioning a trans person's decisions at all, is transphobic and directly comparable to picking on someone for being gay.

Many organisations and individuals have swallowed this so that "celebrating" someone for being trans is the only permissible option. Even when there's a clear possibility that they are, in various cases, just seeking an "identity" to escape their own lives or find a sense of self, dealing with body issues caused by sexual abuse, have a need for attention and to feel special (not dissing that it's common in teens), or in some cases simply a dishonest predator.

Some people have claimed it really is sinister and is being pushed by big pharma who stand to benefit from lots of vulnerable people being medicalised for life. I haven't waded through the evidence for that but I have read that it is happening.

If a killer said his wife "deserved to die" would you be happy seeing reports saying "woman killed because she "deserved to die""? The fact it's a quote doesn't change the intention behind the claim.

That's a great analogy.

@MrsBunHat 'Some people have claimed it really is sinister and is being pushed by big pharma who stand to benefit from lots of vulnerable people being medicalised for life.'.

If you go on a crowdfunding site like Gofundme, look up 'top surgery' fundraisers and start adding up the money being raised by youngsters for this... I did that after a discussion with someone last year and we were both stunned by it. And that's just the ones who aren't getting it done on medical insurance in the US or the NHS here.

A few links here:

thefederalist.com/2018/02/20/rich-white-men-institutionalizing-transgender-ideology/

www.the11thhourblog.com/post/follow-the-money-how-the-pritzker-family-makes-a-killing-from-the-transgender-industry-flow-chart

4thwavenow.com/2016/07/11/follow-the-money-trans-billionaire-makes-new-1-million-grant-to-chicago-pediatric-transition-clinic/

Thanks, yes these are the kids of things I was referring to but didn't have them to hand.

I lived with a transwoman years ago and, coincidentally, we had the exact same medical insurance. They got a free boob job. Meanwhile I fought for a breast reduction due to severe back pain, rashes under my boobs, doctor's supporting notes, and was rejected three times as it was deemed merely "cosmetic", despite the back PAIN!
Clearly some "women" are more important than others.

bitheby

I was addressing the person responsible for making a grin emoticon, in the middle of a discussion of how to avoid encouraging suicidal ideation.

I think it's because of the Stonewall and similar teachings that questioning trans ideology at all, or questioning a trans person's decisions at all, is transphobic and directly comparable to picking on someone for being gay.

This is it....it’s not comparable to being gay.

My assumption is that all gay people, and indeed straight people fought for equality because that was the right thing to do. Crucially, gay rights did not impinge on anyone else’s rights.

Contrast that to the fact that some trans people themselves are against many aspects of trans ideology - we’ve had trans posters here come and tell us that. Debbie Hayton also springs to mind.

Crucially, trans rights (to eg enter the space of their opposite sex) do impinge on the rights of the others.

It’s just so obviously a problem in a way that gay rights never were.

I think the whole way trans people (whether transsexualism as of old, or the new "transgender") have been lumped in with gay rights is and always has been a mistake. It is a different thing, with many more ramifications and far less tangible evidence, which is a bad combination. The way trans ideologists are now targeting same-sex-attracted people shows how incompatible they are.

@ArabellaScott

Angry, I'm glad your DD pulled through, and I'm sorry about your friend.

Trying to treat body dysmorphia (mental illness) by changing the body seems a really odd approach, to me. Why is it not treated the same way as dysmorphia in anorexia is treated?

That's a good question. If someone with anorexia would literally die to be thin, we don't offer them liposuction to make them as slight as they can be. Because it wouldn't be enough. Because it's a mental health problem which needs to be treated as such.

we don't offer them liposuction to make them as slight as they can be. Because it wouldn't be enough.

Totally agree - and also because it would be dangerous, and horrible for them if they later recovered and wanted the healthy body that they would otherwise be able to have.

@CardinalLolzy

I wonder why you have such a problem with it here.

Again for those hard of thinking: because it goes against guidelines of reporting suicide and suicidal ideation. The thread explains this several times.

If a killer said his wife "deserved to die" would you be happy seeing reports saying "woman killed because she "deserved to die""? The fact it's a quote doesn't change the intention behind the claim.

This. A friend’s daughter had a double mastectomy not long ago at 17. Her parents were party persuaded into accepting this because she had been talking about suicidal feelings. A very short time after stating that the reason for her distress was that she was a boy, she was put on cross sex hormones, and gave herself an American boy’s name. It was all so incredibly quick. She was irreversibly changed before reaching adulthood, a confused girl, probably on the autism spectrum, (and I suspect also lesbian) living in a catholic country. She had seen things online that no doubt contributed to her feeling that this was the answer to her feeling out of kilter with others.

I have lost someone to suicide. The utter selfish irresponsibility of the reporting around this, and Page’s comment, makes me extremely upset and angry. Girls are falling for this ideology in droves. Girls who in a different era would have found another way through the struggle of the teenage years . Girls who see this porn soaked culture and don’t want to grow up into women, girls who have been abused and think being boys will protect them, girls who don’t feel feminine enough, lesbian girls.
Telling these girls that surgery is “life saving”, that their lives are not worth living unless they damage themselves in this way, is cruel and shockingly irresponsible.
I wonder how many people on this thread shoring this up have teenage daughters ? This is a trend among teenage girls. My daughter knows several girls who use binders for instance. Distress during puberty is sadly normal for many girls , it is when so many of us will have first experienced sexual harassment, or shame around periods, discomfort in our changing bodies. Who would want to be a girl in this culture ?

I would be really interested to hear the rationale behind why dysmorphia for 'trans' identities is treated so differently than dysmorphia for anorexia.

It seems so similar to me - both conditions feel the body is unacceptable and go to extreme lengths to try to correct the body. Both are risky, and pose dangers to health.

Yet anorexia is treated so very differently. How come?