Trans people should have right to not only change sex on their birth certificate but also change any child's birth certiticate to new parent identity - Stonewall

[stumbledin]

Let transgender parents choose to be ‘mothers’ or ‘fathers’ on birth certificates, says Stonewall

Under current law, it is not possible to change a child’s birth certificate to include a trans person’s revised name or gender

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/24/stonewall-pushing-transgender-parents-mothers-fathers-birth/

(From the new strategy www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4253200-Stonewall-new-branding-vision-strategy-whatever )

Well, I thought that was dealt with by Freddie McConnell's case? The finding being that the certificate belongs tot he child, not the parent and is a record of their, factual, circumstances.

Stonewall really is deluded.

Batshit

Yet another examples of Stonewall (and the other lobby groups) weaponising children's rights to meet their own agenda. What is it about the rights of the child that they fail to understand?

Under current law, it is not possible to change a child’s birth certificate to include a trans person’s revised name or gender

Name? I thought Freddy's child's birth certificate included Freddy's name of Freddy?

Is this not the case?

Name? I thought Freddy's child's birth certificate included Freddy's name of Freddy

Freddy's child was born after Freddy transitioned. I assume this means changing the birth certificates of eg 12 year olds

Stonewall are tipping over the edge now.

Clearly Stonewall feel they have to fight back to recover ground they think they've lost but this flurry of PR, once you're outside their constituency, gives a clear message that Stonewall is a campaigning organisation focused solely on trans issues. If trans sweeps the board which was the direction a few years back, this gamble will pay off handsomely. If not, well, they're going to be in trouble.

Mindboggling

I can't remember the last time I looked at or showed anyone my birth certificate.

I know I'm a woman.

Well, I thought that was dealt with by Freddie McConnell's case? The finding being that the certificate belongs tot he child, not the parent and is a record of their, factual, circumstances.

More specifically, the court followed Stonewalls logic and effectively said '"Men" can be mothers too - get over it'.

"Mother" is not a gendered term, so even if someone thinks they're a man due to "gender", that does not preclude them from being a mother.

Well, I thought that was dealt with by Freddie McConnell's case? The finding being that the certificate belongs tot he child, not the parent and is a record of their, factual, circumstances

It could happen to adults as well presumably, if Stonewall got their way. My 65 year old dad could suddenly decide he’s trans and change MY birth certificate. What happens to any copies I would have? Are they null and void and I’d have to pay for a new one? Would the original become some kind of hate document?! Just utter madness.

Everyone needs to read that strategy document. It makes very clear that their primary agenda is self ID in sports, law and offocial documents. There is a bit of waffle but it's easy reading.

They have helpfully made their goals and broad strategy crystal clear in a way they've never done before (and indeed have denied in the past)- lets use that.

Stonewall get a LOT of funding. Do they not spend any of it on decent legal advice? Or even common sense advice?

Remember when Kids Company started to crumble? Dramatic, wasn't it?

Everyone needs to read that strategy document. It makes very clear that their primary agenda is self ID in sports, law and offocial documents. There is a bit of waffle but it's easy reading.

They have helpfully made their goals and broad strategy crystal clear in a way they've never done before (and indeed have denied in the past)- lets use that.

Quite. And Stonewall are releasing these ideas at the very same time they stand right in a bright media spotlight, having spent the weekend accusing British journalists of being "creepy" for daring to raise reasonable, important questions around organisational competence.

They are REALLY losing the plot!

I posted as a separate link to the one on the new(?) strategy because this is another example of a trans demand that encroaches on someone else's rights, in this instance someone's child/ren.

re Kids Company. That was totally different. What turned out to be false allegations of abuse(?) and a presumption that current expenditure would be covered by future funding.

Stonewall has been in the enviable position of seeming to be able to secure funding on any pretext of they are the best organisation to represent everybody.

We can only hope that recent revelations about them providing untrue legal advice will mean funders will perhaps scrutinise them more closely.

But suspect too many people are now compromised in their support for Stonewall and wont want to even suggest that they have been taken for a ride!

It could happen to adults as well presumably, if Stonewall got their way. My 65 year old dad could suddenly decide he’s trans and change MY birth certificate.

Indeed. Absolute fucking madness.

The ARROGANCE is mind boggling. Not only do they want to create a legal fiction of their own documents but they want to be able to change other peoples documents. Unbelievable...

Just saw upthread someone drawing parallels with Kids Company. I too have thought this.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Name? I thought Freddy's child's birth certificate included Freddy's name of Freddy

Freddy's child was born after Freddy transitioned. I assume this means changing the birth certificates of eg 12 year olds

Jesus, it didn't even occur to me they might mean that. I thought they might just mean that a man who hasn't legally changed his name, and fathers a child, could then ask to have his name recorded as (eg) Jane rather than James on the baby's birth certificate.

"It could happen to adults as well presumably, if Stonewall got their way. My 65 year old dad could suddenly decide he’s trans and change MY birth certificate."

I thought this as well.

Also has the potential for abuse, doesn't it? (thinking about the trans widows here).

Yes, I think the parallels with Kids Company aren’t so much the financial mismanagement and collapse or the allegations of abuse, but the fact that this is a charity pushing a completely nonsensical set of theories and being lauded by the media and influential people for doing so. In the case of Kids Company it was some really weird theories about child psychology and supporting vulnerable kids, and in Stonewall’s case it’s, well, everything they’ve been saying for about the past five years. Looking back it’s really hard to see how many intelligent people were taken in by Camilla Batmangheilidgh with her complete lack of qualifications for pontificating about child development or charity management. Certainly people I know with long experience of doing youth work in the area weren’t. In a similar way I hope and trust that in a few years’ time an awful lot of people will be looking back at their support for Stonewall and wondering what on earth they were thinking.

Cool, that gives me the final bit of ammunition I need to make a case that we drop out of the champion scheme

1. A leading discrimination lawyer has confirmed that they have been giving incorrect and misleading advice to those organisations paying handsomely for the privilege

2. They are not about LGBT inclusion in the work place, they are a political campaigning organisation, organising around issues like self ID and women in sports. I should not be exposed to HR practices that are written by a political organisation, particularly one whose aims I am diametrically opposed to.

The Green Party are on board with this too I believe, think this was voted on at Spring conference, though I as it I can't remember if it was presented as being done in retrospect.

Why charities and pot local parties have a special interest in changing legal documents for children - and has been pointed out - adults too, I don't know.

For the Greens especially, you would have thought there would be more pressing matters....climate change for example.

(This is not intended as a derail BTW.)

Just had a quick look at Stonewall's website. It is now entirely branded in the trans colours of pink and blue. Are they even pretending to be an organisation for gay and lesbian people anymore?

I had to chuckle at their campaign strapline: "the fight is far from over". I'm afraid for Stonewall, that in the UK it largely is. Hence the need to turn to ever higher levels of batshittery in order to stay relevant and funded.

@RockPainting

Just saw upthread someone drawing parallels with Kids Company. I too have thought this.

Glad I’m not the only one, I hadn’t liked to mention it before. I do accept they are very different cases. But there are a few things in common too.

Interesting that no one (to my knowledge) has compared the two in an article or Twitter thread etc. Maybe that means there’s no comparison, or maybe that’s an idea for anyone lurking on these boards.