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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

60 Minutes: Detransitioners

38 replies

rogdmum · 24/05/2021 07:23

I haven’t found a way to view the whole episode from the U.K., but a chunk of it is here:

twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1396641801436467205?s=21

No one is happy with it. 30 detransitioners were interviewed, but little of their interviews made the final cut after word of the programme was leaked and pressure was put on 60 Minutes to switch focus, TRAs aren’t happy because detransitioners got air time. It sounds as though the WPATH segment came before the clip above, but watching the clip I think it will raise awareness of the issue in the US.

OP posts:
FindTheTruth · 24/05/2021 07:32

💐@rogdmum

4 minutes into that clip, the interviewer asks 'how many of you were blindly affirmed?' and all 4 raise their hands 😭

rogdmum · 24/05/2021 07:53

There’s also a written piece about it here:

www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-transgender-health-care-issues-2021-05-23/

OP posts:
rogdmum · 24/05/2021 08:08

And have realised that after a bit of glitchyness, you can watch the whole episode at the bottom of the link above.

OP posts:
nauticant · 24/05/2021 08:11

There's discussion here:

I am skeptical about Bret Weinstein but at least he realises it's important to discuss things.

twelly · 24/05/2021 08:20

I think this is freedom of choice , I personally think lateral flow tests are pointless whilst we have very little border controls. It's a very leaky bucket which is chaotic way to eliminate the virus - the vaccination programme has been very successful but really the whole strategy needs to be co-ordinated . Had the government had in any of the lockdowns a stringent border policy with proper quarantine and no entry I would have a different attitude

YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire · 24/05/2021 08:23

I think you're on the wrong thread @twelly

KittyValentine · 24/05/2021 08:23

Wrong thread @twelly ?

lionheart · 24/05/2021 08:46

Here are some writings from Grace, who appears on the programme:

hormonehangover.substack.com/p/top-surgery-regret-part-1

Calling the doctors to account:

medium.com/@mariacatt42/talking-about-talking-to-doctors-49778915ed4

twelly · 24/05/2021 08:52

Apologies - wrong thread

rogdmum · 24/05/2021 08:52

60 Overtime is pretty dreadful- 60 Minutes crying, “Please don’t cancel us for featuring detransitioners!”

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WarriorN · 24/05/2021 09:26

Thanks, this is an important documentary.

Daisy is a great voice as she has all her videos on YouTube detailing the whole painful process from transition to detranistion. She's very good at reflecting on her motivations and feelings.

Unfortunately the US is so black and white in terms of left and right, to query transition is to nail your colours to the right. Very little room for nuance.

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 09:34

I note that the guy saying it's dangerous to 'talk about detransitioners' uses the false 'suicide risk' claim, ignoring the fact that detransitioners are also struggling with suicidal ideation as a result of these badly advised health care decisions.

FindTheTruth · 24/05/2021 10:42

has anyone watched the full episode? does it mention other countries?

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 11:55

Just watching: Summary for those without the digital software to watch it.

First half includes male transitioner Erica Anderson (Pyschologist) from University of California stating how ominous any bans for children transitioning is and how it is only based on ignorance and prejudice.

Dr Lee Savio-Biers (American Academy of Pediatrics) - stating none of it is experimental, treatments have been based in scientific literature and all treatments have been well documented and used for decades. And backed by a number of major medical organisations. She says there is not any rational for the banning of medical treatment for children transitioning.

Mentions WPATH. And that Under 18: for homones or surgery should have parental consent, and have been seen by therapist. Over 18: for hormones can sign a consent after an initial consultation. For surgery, Over 18 should have seen a therapist.

Mentions WPATH will have revised guidelines by end of 2021.

Goes back to Anderson talking about conversion therapy etc. However, Anderson does admit that clinicians are not always following the WPATH (they have been part of team to develop those WPATH guidelines) and that some clinicians are not well trained. They admit that some doctors take on patients because they are 'interesting' and that doing that is deplorable.

Then shows one of Anderson's patients who they have been treating for 4 years since they were 13. Of course, the patient in a mock counselling session done for the cameras that they would have probably have committed suicide.

Anderson then points out that the criteria for diagnosis for dysphoria is for it to have persisted for 6 months, something that they are not satisfied with (they did not say whether they feel that should be shorter or longer).

Then it goes to the clip tweeted up thread.

And of course, Alfonso David also points out suicide stats in that part of the clip too.

Grace comes across as very well considered.

So no. findthetruth. It does not mention other countries, at all.

I don't know whether people will take on the message that the trans community don't want the negative stories to be told so that questions are raised or whether people will take that at complete face value that people will just hate on trans people if any questions are raised and those people are just ignorant prejudiced people anyway. I don't know the audience at all for this program.

So, yes. Just a whole lot of downplaying by professionals and the brave detransitioners coming across pointing out the flaws in the system and Grace's take of 'why would anyone not want the best health care in place' (my paraphrasing)?

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 12:13

So they fail to mention that WPATH follow the Dutch protocol but also that the Dutch protocol has now been criticised in Denmark and Sweden (abandoned?) and wasn't developed for teens who showed no signs of GD as children?

nauticant · 24/05/2021 12:20

The original segment attracted considerable criticism and 60 Minutes did a short follow-up:

Dr Marci L Bowers is a leading gender reassignment surgeon, and also a transwoman, and is getting nervous at how widely treatments are spreading, and how less expert practitioners are enthusiastically rushing into the field. Bowers knows that lawsuits are coming.

Alphonso David takes the line that detransitioners have to be silenced for the greater good of trans folx. He believes it's wrong for any story looking into this not to do cheerleading.

Dr Lee Savio Beers says that we have to send positive messages to transgender youth and their families about transitioning.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 24/05/2021 12:27

Does it discuss other treatment options? Are it give other examples of physical treatments being used to treat psychological problems?

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 12:30

WarriorN

Yes Warrior. They fail to mention the growing bank of evidence that is accruing in Europe that WPATHs guidelines are not fit for purpose for the growing cohort of young people transitioning.

And certainly did NOT mention the Dutch Dr's warnings.

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 12:33

It sounds like they needed to do more research. Almost there but not quite.

Great that they have started to give detransitioners a voice, especially when twitter keeps banning or cancelling them. But still more work to do.

Interesting that WPATH are now making up their own new guidance 🤔

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 12:34

PaleBlueMoonlight

It did not mention much of the underlying issues that should be treated first. In fact, it was trying so hard to sit on the fence that it really neglected to present a full picture of WHY the bans are coming into place. To be fair, they had the clinician who stated that the current treatments weren't working and that people simply did not want to hear about it and other clinicians were worried about their safety so did not speak out.

They left it at a transitioned male psychologist's statement that it is all just coming from ignorance and prejudice even though that person did say there were some issues, they did not really expand on it. They left it as 'some clinicians are not qualified'.

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 12:37

WarriorN

Reading the link rodgmum posted about the piece, it does seem they had the intention to be more focused on the detransitioners and the issues, but were convinced by the professionals that doing so would mean more hate, and probably (my assumption) more suicides because that was highlighted so much through out.

I think they pulled their punches on this one.

FindTheTruth · 24/05/2021 13:14

thanks for the summary Helleofabore. at least detransitioners have started to be heard

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 15:59

It doesn't seem like the people interviewed were particularly impressed with the final result:

twitter.com/detransgayguy/status/1396615593902710784?s=21

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 16:07

That was a whole lot of investment by Gareth and the others for one hours interview. The reframing, if it happened after they did the interview, I can understand being unhappy.

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 16:22

I can understand it; one is being very gracious about it.

It sounds like the only way to get it aired was to frame it as a "trans health care" issue. (Which has most upset those who definitely no longer see them selves as trans.) Reminds me a bit if the mental gymnastics woman's hour seems to have to do sometimes.

They at least have very good twitter feeds with lots of research and resources.

I'm still fuming Watson has gone. :(

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