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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

BBC EHRC leaves stonewall scheme front page news

40 replies

NiceGerbil · 23/05/2021 20:21

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57219989

BBC front page on website.

'Human rights body leaves Stonewall diversity scheme'

Crikey things are changing.

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stumbledin · 23/05/2021 20:29

Didn't see this thread. Just posted that on the other thread.

NiceGerbil · 23/05/2021 20:36

Oh sorry I looked and didn't see another one! I'll go to that one if it's busier Smile

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NiceGerbil · 23/05/2021 20:37

This one?

'EHRC cuts ties with Stonewall.'

I have read some of that- I think that it front page news on BBC and includes about incorrect advice to Essex, is front page news in itself!

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AnyOldPrion · 23/05/2021 21:39

Members pay Stonewall a fee and allow it to vet their internal policies, such as who can use their toilets and changing facilities.

Love this! They make it sound utterly mundane!

I suspect the more attractive product was actually reputation. The scheme was so popular, that not signing up was perhaps seen as odd and could lead to rumours of phobic attitudes.

And, it would appear from the recent University revelations that such access allowed Stonewall to promote their version of the law, or (as I’ve seen in person from my own professional body, as another example of their reach) social media policies that centred protection of “trans-identity” instead of “a process of gender reassignment” and missed out sex altogether, replacing it with “gender”, an action that would definitely have a chilling effect on freedom of speech of women who are critical of transactivism..

And once that valuable product of “reputation” begins to look a bit threadbare, it becomes apparent that the actual product sold can be described in very banal terms indeed.

Thanks BBC. Finally!

NiceGerbil · 23/05/2021 21:48

A fair few orgs even ones with money have quietly backed away.

Someone at one org told me the evidence and paperwork etc was incredibly heavy. And that they were having to spend... Can't quite remember. half or a full person for 3 months or something to get it together every year. And so they had stopped.

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rogdmum · 23/05/2021 21:50

Also on the news here at 20:24

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcnews

GlassBoxSpectacular · 23/05/2021 21:50

I thought exactly the same regarding the prominence of this on the BBC news page: very out of keeping with the BBC’s usual reporting in this area.

It definitely feels significant. It’s a fairly anodyne article, but it certainly seems to be prompting readers to wonder if ‘value for money’ was the primary/only concern.

Very interesting indeed. I wonder what’s coming next.

Voice0fReason · 23/05/2021 22:17

This is really good news.
Slowly but surely, organisations are starting to realise that involvement with Stonewall is a liability.

TropicalFairyCake · 23/05/2021 22:25

Wow. Impressed and surprised. I thought bbc was full on other direction (after womans hour etc )

TheHandmadeTail · 23/05/2021 22:35

I didn’t think this kind of thing would make front page news iyswim? Obviously I think it’s very important but I’m pleasantly surprised the BBC think so too (even setting aside their bias etc).

NiceGerbil · 23/05/2021 22:38

I would imagine that what will happen is

Other orgs keep working in the background. There's loads apart from stonewall who are talking to schools, govt depts, etc etc

They will all cut stonewall loose publically and denounce them in some way. And then carry on.

I don't get the feeling there will be much loyalty on this.

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aliasundercover · 23/05/2021 22:41

No mention in the Guardian yet. Must not be an important enough story.

NiceGerbil · 23/05/2021 22:44

Does anyone know how and why the boss at the ehrc was changed to someone who would have this totally different approach and talk about things rather than change things quietly in the background?

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OvaHere · 23/05/2021 22:57

@NiceGerbil

Does anyone know how and why the boss at the ehrc was changed to someone who would have this totally different approach and talk about things rather than change things quietly in the background?
No idea but there has been a general fear that a post Brexit Tory majority government will attempt to undo/replace the EqA.

How likely this is I don't know but anything that makes the EqA look like it isn't working/fit for purpose and makes the EHRC look a bit useless when faced with conflict significantly weakens their position.

This could be a bid for longer term survival.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 23/05/2021 23:01

I'm assuming that this change at the EHRC is part of a new government policy to quietly reduce the impact that identity politics has had. The continued silence from MPs of all parties in the face of some awful treatment of women and children has been depressing.
BUT, recent election results, the Keira Bell case about the use of unethical medicine on children, the cancelling of free speech in universities etc has shown the government what a vote loser all this is. They won't take on Stonewall etc - the optics will look too bad. But I bet they cut off the lucrative government £££ and remove much of the influence of all these groups. Fingers crossed.

NiceGerbil · 23/05/2021 23:05

Wouldn't switching up the boss need to have come from higher up though? No idea how it all works. Are they independent from govt?

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NiceGerbil · 23/05/2021 23:05

I thought they were a gov body albeit with autonomy

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NiceGerbil · 23/05/2021 23:07

Ah Liz truss as equalities and women minister.

Interesting.

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PearPickingPorky · 23/05/2021 23:12

Liz Truss recommended Baroness Falkner and then the other MPs on the committee put questions to her, I think.

Clymene · 23/05/2021 23:14

I notice this hasn't been written by their lgbtqiaaaa correspondent Ben

Mollyollydolly · 23/05/2021 23:41

Ben got promotion or moved sideways .. I think he was becoming problematic for the BBC in that role. The chap who wrote this article is a good egg, he's been following this stuff quietly and sensibly on twitter for ages.

Tibtom · 24/05/2021 00:15

@Clymene

I notice this hasn't been written by their lgbtqiaaaa correspondent Ben
Ben was never a correspondent. He always considered his post an opportunity to push an agenda rather than report on what was happening as he should have.
stumbledin · 24/05/2021 00:54

This is how the Telegraph has reported it (not front page!)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/23/equalities-watchdog-pulls-stonewall-diversity-scheme-amid-row/

ChattyLion · 24/05/2021 09:37

BBC still as far as we know has a gender and identity correspondent since 2018

Sample quote from the G&I Correspondent describing standard descriptive sex based terms for sexuality as ‘micro aggressions’ (!)

‘...when you speak to a woman in Burundi and she uses the term homosexual or lesbian because it doesn’t matter to her as much as the woman sitting in London who is much more savvy to all these terms as a micro aggression, you have to reflect that in the reporting by using her language. Language that someone in the West who discusses gender and identity in a very academic way may find problematic. That is really hard because you want to please everyone when you’re doing stories about the underrepresented.’

society.ipsos-mori.com/reporting-identity-an-interview-with-megha-mohan/

Her day in the life interview
www.journoresources.org.uk/megha-mohan-the-bbcs-gender-and-identity-correspondent/

I have no criticism of Megha Mohan personally, jobs a job in journalism and I can imagine it’s really horrible, frankly, working as a woman and as a woman from an ethnic minority at the BBC world service. In this specific Gender and Identity role the cognitive dissonance when you travel around the world meeting women in difficult circumstances for sex-based reasons and as a woman with personal experience of sexism and (I’d imagine from other journalists’ anecdotal experiences but don’t want to presume individually) racism- it must be very hard to handle.

I think like Hunte’s role they've been given a brief which shows the BBC’s complete confusion around this whole area- or maybe like the rest of society, the BBC is made up of gender believers and gender critical people and people who’ve never thought about this and the BBC haven’t taken the time to make a clear policy. Which is not good enough.

Just look how the Press Gazette reporting describes the creation of the new role which shows the BBC’s absolute confusion around sex and gender. According to the Ipsos Mori article, the Gender and Identity role was was ‘designed to allow in-depth, specialist reporting around areas such as faith, ethnicity, sexuality, and LGBT+ experiences across the globe.’ So nothing to do with women as a sex but everything to do with gender identity. And to do this in a global context shows a massive imposition of a highly privileged individualist specific political lens on to the objective reporting required of the role.

If you look at the Press Gazette reporting of it : www.pressgazette.co.uk/bbc-world-service-appoints-first-specialist-gender-and-identity-reporter/

‘The BBC has appointed its first gender and identity reporter as part of its recent expansion of the World Service. Mohan, who is currently a senior journalist with BBC Stories, will join a specialist unit within BBC World Service in September and look in-depth at issues including LGBT+ experiences, faith and ethnicity. A BBC spokesperson said: “The specialist role will cover stories about gender and identity which could be around people’s faith, ethnicity, sexuality and LGBT+ experiences across the globe.’

‘“We know that gender and identity issues are of great interest, particularly to our younger audiences around the world, and this role will be dedicated to reporting on them. “The role will be part of a specialist unit within the BBC World Service making leading investigative, exploratory journalism that contextualises the themes and issues behind news stories and presents them in exciting ways for our global audience to interact with.”’

‘Announcing her appointment on Twitter, Mohan said she was “thrilled” to take on the role and thanked the “brilliant women” journalists who provided her with support during the application process.
She has previously written stories which may come under the gender and identity brief, including about her personal experience of being unable to mourn her grandmother in a Hindu temple with the rest of her family because she was forbidden to do so while she was on her period.
Mohan is also a co-founder of The Second Source, a scheme set up by female journalists to match young women with more experienced mentors and help them in the early years of their media careers.’

‘The BBC denied reports that the creation of the gender and identity reporter related in any way to its ongoing gender pay gap and equal pay issues. The corporation’s 12 highest stars are all men, according to the BBC’s annual report released earlier this month.
It came soon after former BBC China editor Carrie Gracie secured an apology from the corporation in which it admitted she had been underpaid compared to other male international editors.’

Disclaimer: Personally I love and value the BBC as a vital cultural institution and news source, obviously it’s not perfect. It has some serious flaws but long may it continue to be funded by the licence payer because the commercial alternatives for quality and balance of programming are MUCH, MUCH worse. I know we would be out of the frying pan into the fire.

BUT that whole set of messages as quoted above underlines to me how beleaguered, confused, and regressive disguised as progressive the current BBC top brass are. So I have every sympathy for the journalists trying to tread an impossible and shifting line in their beat. Also I really can’t imagine how a global audience for BBC reporting will feel that their experiences are being reflected back to them when the whole emphasis is always on ‘gender’ and not ‘sex’.

There isn’t a BBC women’s correspondent, is there?

TheHandmadeTail · 24/05/2021 10:41

‘...when you speak to a woman in Burundi and she uses the term homosexual or lesbian because it doesn’t matter to her as much as the woman sitting in London who is much more savvy to all these terms as a micro aggression

What?! Speaking as a woman sitting in London, what terms am I supposed to use?