Local Men's Group

[CervixSampler]

The local paper is running an article on a local men's group for those who are finding lockdown and the pandemic in general a struggle. It made me wonder if the group is open to trans men (apologies if there shouldn't be a space there). The reply I got appeared to say that trans men would have specific issues different to that of men. Yet, the WI is open to all, based on identity. Why is this and is it a thing that women's groups are now inclusive of all but men's are not? Are there any die hard men only clubs out there?

A local men's group posted on social media that they did accept transmen, in response to a request.
I suspect not many are wanting to.
Men don't want to join women's clubs, activist transwomen do.

It does illustrate that men's single-sex spaces are under no threat

I don't believe that's true. Lots of men only spaces have already gone. Not only places of power too. Pubs, or men only rooms in pubs, for example, workng class ones.
It seems like it's only the places of power: expensive golf clubs, masons and gentlemen's clubs, that remain.
Working class men have given up their male only spaces.

Parliament was also a men's only space once don't forget.

Just because men's only spaces have disappeared it does not mean that this is not fair or just (someone please sort out the double-negative there).

Also, ladies' lounges and carriages on trains and waiting rooms have also gone.

I fully support the right of Adult Human Females to have sex-segregated spaces, and I also happen to belong to a men's group.

I think it could actually be counterproductive to pursue this issue by trying to get into men's spaces in this way: if the men are fine with it and feel unthreatened, they might then conclude that it's also fine to change laws and customs in a way that allows males to enter female spaces.

A more effective way to educate more men on this issue might be to point them to this excellent and relatively new website: www.sex-matters.org.

It’s not really fair to compare the men’s club to the WI though as they’re separate organisations. You can’t say that because the WI allow men, all men’s clubs must allow women. It’s the same as Scouts allowing girls but Guides not allowing boys; they’re 2 separate organisations albeit similar and they’re free to make their own rules. Personally, I think the issue here is with the WI not the men’s club.

Also, ladies' lounges and carriages on trains and waiting rooms have also gone.

When they were proposed a couple of years ago, there was outrage about it on this very forum.

^on the London Underground that is.

yetanotherSpartacus not talking about feminists...more like the WI though not...

@LadyCatStark

Guides do allow natal born boys in though, if they self id as girls.

And on camps, the parents won't be allowed to know there is a natal born boy in the same tent as their natal born girls.

Huge safeguarding issue, right there

Exclusively men's clubs:

The Garrick
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrick_Club

The Buffs - "Royal Antediluvium Order of Buffaloes"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Antediluvian_Order_of_Buffaloes#Membership

Augusta National Golf Club (Home of the US Masters)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusta_National_Golf_Club#Membership

The Masons (Regular freemasonry)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry

Round Table
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_Table_(club)

Rather ironically, the Flyfisher's Club does not admit women members, despite the fact that a woman still holds the UK salmon record at 64lbs - Georgina Ballantyyne in 1922

www.salmon-fishing-holidays.com/The_British_Record_Salmon-1514-news

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyfishers%27_Club

Alist of London clubs, some of which still do not admit women as members or even as guests.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gentlemen%27s_clubs_in_London

Men’s spaces are under ‘threat’ from a different direction. There were plenty of clubs i that were men only, but most have been persuaded to allow women. I was never sure that this was wise at the time it was happening - I always believed that sometimes sex-specific spaces were a good thing

It depends on the space. When it denies women the opportunity to participate in employment related networking etc its not fair. But health groups etc absolutely. Men should be able to have their own space.

I get cross when people compare it to the girl guides though. The scouts were boys only. But when numbers dropped it was either allow women to host the group and let girls join or lose it Al together and now it's thrown in our faces.

This seems to he a common theme. Many womens groups and spaces were set up by and for women . There was nothing stopping Men doing the same. Instead the attitude seems to be that if they can't join the womens group then it shouldn't exist at all. The solution seems always to take away. Never to add.

Men absolutely should have the ability to have a group exclusive to men but that's up to them to sort out tbh.

Stopping to their level and infiltrating the mens groups that do exist doesn't seem.right. but again if men don't want transmen to join their groups that's their fight. We can't do both. They have to sort that out fir themselves

Oh OK sorry, my experience of scouting/guiding was pre the trans fashion, even though it’s only been a few years since DS was in Beavers so it wasn’t really something I had to think about then 😂. Makes you realise how quickly it’s all come about 🤯.

LadyCatStark

The issue is 'trans' kids and adults being accepted as if they are the sex they claim to be.
That makes organisations mixed sex without actually making it clear.