Did you know that nearly a third of women’s convictions are for TV licence fee evasion?

[SimonedeBeauvoirscat]

This is shocking. I’ve known about the terrible consequences of not paying the TV licence fee because it is a criminal offence for a while but I hadn’t realised it was so prevalent in the female prison population. This is also very informative and shocking about the wider population of women in prison.

• almost a third of women’s convictions are for not paying the licence fee

• women are 10 times more likely to be convicted for not paying the licence fee than men

• women in prison are commonly victims of more serious crimes than what they were convicted of

• only 1% of women in prison are there for violent offences

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tv-licence-fee-women-convictions-b1763192.html

Apologies as well- they certainly used to so glad that's stopped.

'Almost a third of women’s convictions are for not paying the TV licence fee, figures have revealed.'

That's awful though.

It's also inflating crime stats around men Vs women convicted of offences iyswim

2018 so not long ago. Glad this has stopped.

'"The number of women imprisoned in England and Wales in 2018 was four, a 50% reduction from the previous year’s eight women'.

www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2019/07/237240/tv-licence-evasion-women

The stats around women being prosecuted etc etc are still appalling.

The fact that women are being indirectly discriminated against ( not sure that's the right term!) is shocking.

@UberMullet

No one, male nor female should go to prison for debt. Prison should be there to punish and then rehabilitate people for actually committing real crimes.

So when women are too poor to afford to pay for a TV licence (probably for their children), we punishthese poor women by taking more money they don't have from them?

Makes sense.

If they can't pay the fine can they end up in prison?

Not sure any more.

I think they realised it was a really bad look.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2019/women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2019

An interesting and very accessible report from the ONS.

The Howard League was campaigning about ending all prison sentences for debt (hear hear) but I don't know the latest.

It's insane that this archaic punishment still exists. Expensive, life-destroying and utterly pointless. Prison is no deterrence to poverty.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]Looked it up, says here that maximum sentence for TV license evasion is a band B fine. None of the women in prison are there over TV license....
www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/tv-licence-payment-evasion-revised-2017/[/quote]
@PlanDeRaccordement What if they can't pay or refuse to pay the fine?

@WagnersFourthSymphony

The Howard League was campaigning about ending all prison sentences for debt (hear hear) but I don't know the latest.

It's insane that this archaic punishment still exists. Expensive, life-destroying and utterly pointless. Prison is no deterrence to poverty.

Totally agree. We look down on countries like the UAE for throwing people in jail for ‘civil’ matters like debt, whilst we continue to criminalise the non payment of motoring, council tax and TV license fines.

The whole issue about women going to prison for short sentences because they are mainly found guilty of lesser crimes has been discussed for year (decades?) and nothing changes.

There was a strong response to the Government saying they proposed to build 500 more places for women to be imprisoned in a joint letter from a number of women's groups. Quit recent so I am sure if you googled you would find it.

And also this recently published www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/PressPolicy/News/vw/1/ItemID/1011

But by chance have seen this (oh dear not another consultation)
Women in prison inquiry launched
committees.parliament.uk/committee/102/justice-committee/news/154843/women-in-prison-inquiry-launched/

Forgot to add some years ago there was a lot of pressure about the number of women sent to prison for shop lifting, when quite often is was to help feed their children. Not sure what became of that.

Sockmonster thanks for the link.

I would encourage everyone to read it- the intro and summary are not long and it's an easy and quick read with some really interesting info.

Right, I know some women on her, with very good reason, do not like blokes like myself posting. However, my DW and I have been licence free since last year.
It is a disgusting situation where women are being targeted for licence evasion.
There are a few good rules to adhere to.
Do not watch live TV. You can watch catchup, TV Discovery+, you can listen to any radio on you TV. You can watch Youtube videos online.
They are complete and utter bastards with regard to putting women in prison for these so called "offences", it make me livid with rage.
Remember the expenses scandal back in the day when Labour were in charge - Jacqie Smith, Home Secretary at the time, wasn't even considered for prosecution , despite fiddling hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Please look at these links.

@NiceGerbil

The stats around women being prosecuted etc etc are still appalling.
The fact that women are being indirectly discriminated against ( not sure that's the right term!) is shocking.

What a strange way to look at crime statistics. Far more men are prosecuted and convicted of violent crimes than women, do we say that is “indirect discrimination” because there are mythical women out there just getting away with murder? No. We talk about how male violence is a societal evil blight. But oh, more women being prosecuted for TV license evasions and suddenly there is “indirect discrimination” going on with (presumably) untold numbers of men getting away with free TV?

Women used to be sent to prison for non payment of the TV licence, the govt put a stop to that quite recently. It was costing the taxpayer thousands of pounds every week to pay for the incarceration of women, and putting their children into care.

They were still being sent to prison in 2015;
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4130060/More-women-men-jailed-TV-licenses.html

There were plans to decriminalise in 2020
www.thesun.co.uk/news/12786183/bbc-licence-fee-evaders-no-longer-face-prison/

Did you read any of the links about the number of women v men prosecuted for non payment of tv licence, and the reasons why?

If you have a look at the links then I'm happy to discuss.

Here’s another grim statistic, 4 in 5 women in prison in Scotland have a history of head injury, often through domestic abuse.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/13/four-in-five-female-prisoners-in-scotland-found-to-have-history-of-head-injury?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1620945643

And plan if you haven't read the links (?) then why are you making assumptions about why I came to that conclusion.

And if you have I'd be interested to hear why you disagree with the reasons given for the difference in the links.

Under there's been loads of stuff about head injuries and women. Turns out loads have long term brain damage usually due to DV and one effect is often memory issues/ not communicating well/ stuff like that. This has an impact in court as they are seen as unreliable/ vague/ behaviour can be peculiar etc. So it all works together to mean women who have been seriously abused are more likely to end up in prison.

@NiceGerbil
Ah, haven’t followed your links but presume it’s the usual speculation to try and explain why more women break that particular law. I’ve seen many over the years. The one about women being home more so are the ones tangling with enforcement officers (silly given unemployment % between sexes not being that much different). Women being more likely to be poor and thus somehow more entitled or tempted to free TV. Women being stupider than the more tech savvy men and not understanding you can’t watch BBC iplayer on your phone or laptop without a license. I don’t buy any of these speculations and I don’t think women are inherently holier than men. We break laws. Knowingly. Because we are human. We just tend to do it through peaceful means. Passive resistance instead of violent.

Now how about you answer my question? Why are you crying discrimination regarding more women than men being prosecuted over tv license evasion, but not crying discrimination over more men than women being prosecuted for violent crimes? The mere existence of a sex gap doesn’t automatically mean discrimination.

What evidence is there that more women than men break the law and evade paying the TV licence?

I'd certainly be interested to find out the proportion of men and women who get caught without a television licence who are single parents to children.

@Thelnebriati

What evidence is there that more women than men break the law and evade paying the TV licence?

The ONS police crime statistics. Duh. Same ones that tell us that more men murder people than women do.

If it was decriminalised and became a civil offence, the sentences would still be similar however the burden of proof would be far lower. For a criminal conviction, the prosecution must prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Whereas for a civil case, it only needs to be proved on the balance of probabilities. So if it were to be decriminalised, then there would be far more people paying the same fines.

Plan- you don't trust the ONS?

Be really interested to hear why that is.

'crying' is an interesting word to use!

I note that you imply that the difference in male v female convictions is something other than men being more violent..? That it's down to something else? Interested in your thoughts.

The bloke who joined the women and equalities committee suggested that for equality, women should be sent to prison in the same numbers. I can't agree with that argument. It seems very silly to me tbh.

Anyway there's stats on the nature of crimes committed, the numbers imprisoned etc etc on the ONS link.

If you refuse to treat the ONS as a reasonable source of info then there's not much point in talking is there? You are operating from a certain point of view and opinion of the women who post on here.

And you said the way I approached stats was iffy!