Saying ‘women have vaginas’ is transphobic?

[ProfessorInkling]

According to a science teacher at my DS’s school.

I acted dumb and asked how do you mean? She said, well, it doesn’t include transwomen who don’t have vaginas or trans men who do.

I said, well, you can’t identify-out of biology. She agreed. Sort of?!

Blah blah Stonewall training - cue other staff getting excited ‘oh yes Stonewall!!’

I don’t even know where to begin. They have mixed toilets. They have always been mixed. Challenging it seems impossible.

She said, well, it doesn’t include transwomen who don’t have vaginas or trans men who do.

A science teacher said that? Oh, the irony.

We Should be writing the name down of every single person we see spouting this crap because I genuinely think in a few years we will look back on this madness like we do now on the Orkneys child abuse scandal. At that point all the voices that are pushing this stuff will suddenly go quiet and deny they were part of the problem.

Next question should be "Are you teaching this horseshit to the kids?"

How can they always have had mixed toilets? That's illegal.

I feel so sorry for girls in secondary schools that have made the toilets mixed- imagine trying to change a towel in those. All those boys listening to the tell tale rustle.

I would have brought up the University of Essex's recent findings myself.

@Childrenofthestones

We Should be writing the name down of every single person we see spouting this crap because I genuinely think in a few years we will look back on this madness like we do now on the Orkneys child abuse scandal. At that point all the voices that are pushing this stuff will suddenly go quiet and deny they were part of the problem.

yes, there are going to be a lot of embarassed red faces

How do they teach Sex Ed?

How did this come up in conversation?
Are they a biology teacher?
Really?

(sorry, lots of questions).

Why is a teacher saying this to children? That's her opinion, not a fact. Gaslighting children into silence - stopping them from speaking factually is unprofessional and plain wrong. Parents need to complain about teachers behaving like this.

How can they always have had mixed toilets? That's illegal.

Possibly like at my DC's school. They are individual cubicles in a block in the corridor, so whilst each cubicle is single sex, the boys ones are next to the girls ones.

DD doesn't use the loo all day I have recently found out.

It is often the seemingly science nerds that are shouting TWAW the loudest. It makes no sense.

Perhaps you ought to point the school in the direction of the Essex University Report and make the point that the school are the ones who will be facing legal challenges not Stonewall when they are found to acting against the Law.

How do schools with mixed sex toilets ensure no one brings a phone in there?

They must have plenty of cases of phones slipped over or under partitioning walls? Unless they only have fully enclosed floor to ceiling walls and doors.

Ask Science teacher: what is the collective term for people with vaginas?

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

How do they teach Sex Ed?

Badly.

@sharksarecool

Ask Science teacher: what is the collective term for people with vaginas?

A flock of fannies? A murder of vulvas? A pride of pussies?

The context was a talk forum to discuss the government guidance on relationships and sex education - the school want parental input as they plan how to deliver within the curriculum. I was asked for my thoughts and said my main issue with the guidance is that the terms sex and gender are used correctly and not interchanged as happens so often - lots of enthusiastic nodding and ‘yes you’re right’ at that point.

Then wider discussion on language, science teacher said they don’t use the term women in biology but they say ‘female reproductive organs’ and ‘female hormones’ because they are bound by mark schemes.

I asked if they mean they never use the word woman? Was told oh we will say woman in other contexts.

Re toilets. When visited the school three years ago I was naive and didn’t think much of it. They are floor to ceiling doors but sinks are not in the cubicles. Sinks are in the middle of the room, which is set back in a recess in the corridor and so sort-of open plan.

I keep reading the safe schools alliance webpage and the regulations on this but it feels like a grey area. The school was a new build and opened in 2018.

According to my son, the new "gender neutral" toilets that were built in a recent school extension are no longer gender neutral but have reverted to boys and girls.
Why was this, I asked?

"Nobody wanted to go in them".

If the term woman is not defined by reference to biology what is it defined by? Does it even have a meaning?

So they will use the word woman in any context or subject except biology?

Tell them that by following Stonewall's guidance and pretend law they are likely to end up in trouble for not complying with the actual equality act which protects female pupils from sex based discrimination.

Gender and gender identity have no legal (or coherent) definitions and are not protected characteristics.

The school should not be teaching gender ideology as fact.

That is mildly transphobic, as not all women have vaginas and not everyone with vaginas are women

@transinclusionist

That is mildly transphobic, as not all women have vaginas and not everyone with vaginas are women

Don't you get bored proselytising? The OP clearly does not share your belief in the doctrine of gender identity and demanding that she espouse your belief by attacking her character is hugely counterproductive as well.

Women are adult human females. Female humans have vaginas. And no, the rare exception of a woman who was born without a vagina due to a difference in sex development does not invalidate that fact. Much as someone born without legs does not invalidate the statement that humans are bipedal.

None of this is an expression of fear or hatred of transgender people. It's biology.

Talk to her in more depth and say 'safeguarding' a lot.

I've just had a great chat with my DS's RE / philosophy / ethics teacher and he's revising his use of Proud Trust materials.

So this Science teacher is implying that "woman " as a word only refers to gender identity and therefore can be used to describe people of both the male and female sex. However, when teaching about actual sex ,they use female to describe the sex with the vaginas. Have I got that right?

people. However, when referring to actual

It’s not transphobic to say “women have vaginas”
it’s only transphobic to say “only women have vaginas”.

Much like it’s correct to say “rain is wet” but not “only rain is wet”

Teacher must have failed her basic class in logic and reasoning.

Its not transphobic to say 'only women have vaginas'. 'Woman' is a sex class, not a gender identity.

But it would be ok to say only human females have vaginas? That wouldn't be transphobic would it?