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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Have to fill out an equalities form as ‘cis woman’ and not happy!

84 replies

Rejoiningperson · 20/05/2021 15:13

I’ve just applied for a temporary job that I really want. However I am pretty cross that at the end of the form, the Equalities Monitoring Form has only one box I can tick, and I don’t agree with any of them. I’m pretty cross as their form means that they really have no idea whether women are being represented in their organisation or not. It says:

Are you:

Male (including both cis men and trans men)
Women (including both cis women and trans women)
Non Binary
Other

I’m a bit big on the accuracy of data, as this used to be part of my job. This equalities form breaks equality law doesn’t it? There might as well not be a question here. For example at the end of the year they could say that 80% of their organisation are women - but they could actually be men identifying as women. Crazy!

I want to leave the question blank. I do not identify as a cis woman. Or a trans woman. And circling it means nothing at all. As a woman I’m invisible.

OP posts:
McDuffy · 20/05/2021 20:22

Great post @Artichokeleaves
I work in a stonewall champion organisation and my best pal at work is covertly GC as he thinks that's the best way to effect change. He's a shrewd political operator and asks lots of "innocent" questions, whereas I've had my card marked as a possible transphobe for being much more vocal. People will listen to his moderate voice more, but are suspicious of my agenda (of safeguarding women's rights Hmm)
Anyway, long way of saying that I try to rein it in a bit because I'm better inside the tent pissing out (do we have an analogy that works for female biology?!)

Barracker · 20/05/2021 20:54

It's perfectly clear.

Just like this:
Have you stopped kicking puppies for sport
A. Yes
B. No

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/05/2021 20:56

@JellySlice I laughed out loud at that. Regardless of anything else I respect both Venn diagrams generally and posters who post diagrams.

MN at it's finest.

MarshaBradyo · 20/05/2021 20:57

Haha love the venn diagram

Mum2jenny · 20/05/2021 20:57

I’d go for ‘other’ as the options do not represent your reality

Leafstamp · 20/05/2021 21:08

@Thevoiceofreason2021

Tick women and get the job. I watched a documentary on some poor women who’s daughter was killed by a lorry whilst out cycling. After much campaigning and no progress, she bought shares in the lorry company, attended the AGM and took the stage. They had to hear her out, As a shareholder, and subsequently bought about the changes she wanted. Many women share your frustration, but you can’t force change from outside, you need to be imbedded within the organisation to challenge such women nonsense
This is an amazing story. I just googled, and she got an OBE!

I shall file away this approach (buying shares in a company in order to attend the AGM) for the future!

NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 21:09

In all honesty if it was a job application. Even though these things are supposed to be kept confidential. I'd probably tick woman.

It's up to you obv.

The not working there thing- this is everywhere and often has no relation to what the company is actually about iyswim. The hr dept don't look into things in detail they just use what seems to be the current norm. Most are not all over the current situation and it's not a statement of intent or anything.

OhLordyWhatNow · 20/05/2021 21:10

Feeling your pain, I answered a diversity monitoring questionnaire recently.

What is your gender?
man
women
prefer to self-describe
prefer not to say

I chose prefer to self-describe and wrote in the text box I do not have a gender, my sex is female.

NecessaryScene1 · 20/05/2021 22:04

For a job application, not wanting to risk your chances, just tick non-binary. That will boost your chances, I assume.

And it's accurate enough. You don't identify as cis or trans.

transinclusionist · 20/05/2021 22:39

It probably said that to clarify that trans women are women Smile

NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 22:48

Then in loads of things why is data on trans status gathered?

It's unnecessary surely?

Personally I think that collecting data on the trans population is important to understand the particular issues faced and work to improve their lives.

I'm a bit sad that you don't feel that way.

NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 22:51

I mean by your approach you just have maybe

Woman
Man
Non binary
Other

It says gender so trans people will know what to select.

It gives no insight into whether the company is attracting trans applicants though which is a major weakness.

Why push for trans people to be hidden like this?

rabbitwoman · 21/05/2021 06:52

Is it just me who can see how important it is that trans women and men maintain their statistical integrity? That lumping trans women and women together in one catagory does not help them - it makes them invisible!!

For instance - take the often made claim that trans women are being murdered at an alarming rate. Well, not according to the statistics. So either, these poor murdered souls are being recorded as men, and counted as murdered men statistically, or they are being recorded as women and counted as women statistically. They've disappeared.....

The census was going to be used to allocate funding to different parts of the country depending on who needed it. So - 500 trans women in my area, for instance. But they all insist on putting 'woman' on their census - so, no trans health care for my area, but extra funding for maternity care and breast cancer screening, thanks!

JellySlice · 21/05/2021 09:47

Trans ideology and trans wellbeing are totally unrelated. If the ideologues were truly invested in the well-being, safeguarding and healthcare of trans people they would insist on accurate language and data.

Pyewackect · 21/05/2021 09:52

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

I would tick other. A percentage of women have no idea what this bloody "cis" thing is. Play the game and tick other as you are a woman.
Including me. I had to Google it. .
Quaggars · 21/05/2021 10:38

@Bellybootcut

Tick women. That includes you doesn't it?
This. It says woman. Which you are, so you tick that one.
Quaggars · 21/05/2021 10:40

Well, assuming you are a woman as your OP certainly implies that you are with that being the box you're not sure what to put on and are cross about

notatallsure313 · 21/05/2021 10:45

You don't need to complete equalities forms.

You are right that they should not have attached it to the application.

Regardless of views on the trans/ GC debate, this is a poorly designed form. People like you, who regard gender as a social construct rather than an inner state, have no way to answer this form.
Its trying to force you to answer according to a belief system you do not share. That means the response options are not exhaustive.

They don't know much about equality monitoring or survey design tbh.

EyesOpening · 21/05/2021 10:54

@FannyCann

Anyway why is it

Male (including both cis men and trans men)
Women (including both cis women and trans women)

Surely that should be Male (albeit including a category of non men) or Female (albeit with category of non women)

Not Male or Women ?
And even if a person's pronouns are "they/them" they will still only be one woman (cis or trans). As in woman not women.

These monitoring forms are meant to be anonymous anyway so I'd either leave it blank or if it's online and demand a tick then go for other. You can't possibly be women however you identify (if you identify!). Confused

Yes, male and women is an odd pairing! I would be torn between ticking the woman and the other but I think I wouldn’t mark my card before I got the job, but try and challenge it afterwards. Could you maybe get someone else to email them about the form?
MintyCedric · 21/05/2021 11:07

I had to fill out a similar form yesterday. Options were:

Woman
Man
Trans Woman
Trans Man
Other

Seems sensible...but I wonder how long it will take a trans applicant to throw their toys out of their pram for being othered

NiceGerbil · 21/05/2021 14:47

It's asking her what get gender identity is though, isn't it?

Not her sex. So if she is one because she's female that's not what they're looking for at all. They want to know how she identifies internally. Totally different.

Quaggars · 21/05/2021 14:50

@NiceGerbil

It's asking her what get gender identity is though, isn't it?

Not her sex. So if she is one because she's female that's not what they're looking for at all. They want to know how she identifies internally. Totally different.

So if it is gender they're wanting then, and she doesn't identify as a woman, surely could tick the box that says other
MarshaBradyo · 21/05/2021 14:52

@notatallsure313

You don't need to complete equalities forms.

You are right that they should not have attached it to the application.

Regardless of views on the trans/ GC debate, this is a poorly designed form. People like you, who regard gender as a social construct rather than an inner state, have no way to answer this form.
Its trying to force you to answer according to a belief system you do not share. That means the response options are not exhaustive.

They don't know much about equality monitoring or survey design tbh.

It seems rife atm

And I agree it’s forcing a system that a large amount of women do not agree with

NiceGerbil · 21/05/2021 15:00

Why should she be required to share such a sensitive piece of info?
Why is there no prefer not to say option?
There's is with sexuality and ethnicity on the forms I've seen.