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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What's happening with the Church of England?

37 replies

darkpink · 16/05/2021 15:35

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fury-as-pointless-archbishop-of-canterbury-turns-back-on-chaplain/ar-BB1gM34P?ocid=msedgntp

OP posts:
darkpink · 16/05/2021 15:39

Apparently a private school chaplain gave a sermon saying that pupils didn't have to go along with the trans narrative, was dismissed for gross misconduct and then reinstated on appeal, has since been dismissed again, was actually reported to the Prevent anti-radicalisation programme, and is bringing a discrimination claim. The Church of England has refused to comment, and allegedly approved the school's decision when it was taken.

OP posts:
Melroses · 16/05/2021 15:41

Don't know - the Arch Bish is on sabbatical, I hear.

Iamaperwinkle · 16/05/2021 15:41

This was in the new a while ago.

I don't think we have the full story here -or the way it is reported.

Distractable · 16/05/2021 15:43

There's an employment tribunal coming up and I imagine that they are unlikely to comment before everything has been laid out in the tribunal. Justin Welby is indeed on sabbatical at the moment.

poshme · 16/05/2021 15:44

Well it seems that the CofE are refusing to comment on an ongoing legal case- which is reasonable.

I have a feeling there is more to this case than meets the eye...

Mummytemping · 16/05/2021 15:50

Justin Welby wouldn’t be making a comment as he is on sabbatical. The C of E isn’t the employer either. So I would hope more comment would be forthcoming if the facts from the tribunal support that. In the meantime he should be getting pastoral care from his licensing bishop, but that will be private.

darkpink · 16/05/2021 16:13

I hope you're right and that things are not as bad as they appear to be from this newspaper article. Does anyone know whether anyone else in the Church of England has spoken up on transactivism (either for or against)?

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SmokedDuck · 16/05/2021 16:19

I wouldn't expect the CofE to make a useful comment on anything controversial, or stand up for intellectual rights.

SmokedDuck · 16/05/2021 16:19

@darkpink

I hope you're right and that things are not as bad as they appear to be from this newspaper article. Does anyone know whether anyone else in the Church of England has spoken up on transactivism (either for or against)?
They are on the woke bandwagon.
FartyLabrador · 16/05/2021 16:43

If you google John Parker and mermaids, he was a minister and school governor who dared to question mermaids during a school meeting. It was about two years ago I think.

BlackeyedSusan · 16/05/2021 18:35

Yeah. They have been training vicars on having difficult conversations. I plan on being difficult. Grin

Timefortea4 · 16/05/2021 21:03

I noticed in 2018 that their response to the GRA consultation was non committal and made no reference to the potential impact on women and girls of self ID. Which was disappointing given the focus on safeguarding in the church.

StillFemale · 16/05/2021 21:51

The CoE had a proposal for some sort of renaming ceremony for trans people a couple of years ago, there was some unexpected push back from clergy and members so I think idea was shelved - more here www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/29/church-england-plan-welcoming-trans-people-under-fire-clergy-lay-members-bishops-withdraw-guidance
There’s clearly elements within the CoE pushing the trans agenda, (including it seems D Hayton). It’s unclear how high that goes.

Procrastinator3 · 16/05/2021 22:48

Jayne Ozanne has been very vocal.

RadicalFern · 17/05/2021 15:59

The CofE is (forgive me) a very broad church.ministers vary enormously in what they believe in and teach.

BlackLambAndGreyFalcon · 17/05/2021 17:08

My C of E vicar has preached on this subject. He is very vocal that God created people either male or female.

Cuckoochime · 17/05/2021 17:24

@StillFemale
There was something on twitter from some CofE female clergy objecting to the guidance (now in use) as they said it was coercive control and a safeguarding risk when the church has such a history of male clergy abusing children, will try and find it

Cuckoochime · 17/05/2021 17:32

Can't find the twitter stuff- maybe someone else can... The conservatives for women site has an article about it too...

www.conservativesforwomen.org/women-in-the-church-of-england-whistleblow-about-gender-ideology

I know a female vicar and she says one of her friends wrote to the safeguarding bishop about forced speech, safeguarding children and caring for the families of male transitioners who had experienced domestic abuse and was told to 'be kind' to the transitoners (no concern for women and children affected).

SchoolChaplain · 17/05/2021 17:46

I've name changed for this post as there can't be that many of us in the UK so it's a bit outing and I don't want it linked to my other posts.
I'm a school chaplain. We have been warned by church leaders to be very careful what we say on the back of this case.
For what it's worth, I am 100% for same sex marriage (and wish the CofE would change their standpoint on this but they won't anytime soon) but have to be incredibly careful what I say on gender identity.
I think I could be more open on my views on gender idealogy if I were in parish, but the schools (including church schools) have all been stonewalled.
It seems so strange that my views on same sex marriage are too liberal for the CofE to officially accept, but I'm deemed unacceptably conservative and bigoted for believing that there is a difference between sex and gender and that sex is fixed.

BlackLambAndGreyFalcon · 17/05/2021 19:18

Premier Christianity have published the full text of the chaplains sermon:

www.premierchristianity.com/opinion/i-was-accused-of-being-a-terrorist-read-the-sermon-that-school-chaplain-claims-lost-him-his-job/4335.article

aliloandabanana · 17/05/2021 22:27

The church has gone woke under Justin Wellby. There's a new project called Living in Love and Faith, aimed at getting people to discuss "identity, sexuality, relationships and marriage". Note which is first. From what I've read so far, there is an assumption that we all accept the idea of gender identity, it's coming very much from the "be kind" angle and there's no hint in the book that anyone might question it.

I just can't understand how the CofE could support these ideas - surely to accept transgenderism is to say that God sometimes gets it wrong?

chelida · 17/05/2021 23:27

@SchoolChaplain

I've name changed for this post as there can't be that many of us in the UK so it's a bit outing and I don't want it linked to my other posts. I'm a school chaplain. We have been warned by church leaders to be very careful what we say on the back of this case. For what it's worth, I am 100% for same sex marriage (and wish the CofE would change their standpoint on this but they won't anytime soon) but have to be incredibly careful what I say on gender identity. I think I could be more open on my views on gender idealogy if I were in parish, but the schools (including church schools) have all been stonewalled. It seems so strange that my views on same sex marriage are too liberal for the CofE to officially accept, but I'm deemed unacceptably conservative and bigoted for believing that there is a difference between sex and gender and that sex is fixed.
Interestingly depressing and somehow totally unsurprising - of course the Cof E would go in for woke homophobia.

Our local parish has a transwoman curate. I’ve stopped going and probably won’t go back again now. I grew up going to very high church C of E girls’ schools and getting lectured by male chaplains preaching to school halls of girls; we even had one who gave sermons about how he opposed female ordination and as for lesbianism....beyond the pale! Turning up for a service at the local parish to find a middle aged transwoman sermonising took me right back to those days. No female C of E vicar or chaplain I’ve ever heard has quite that kind of tone. It’s difficult to abandon decades of male privilege and male style in public speaking, I guess. As a bi woman who’s very aware of how women still struggle in the church (maternity leave anyone?) and how homophobic it still is, it sticks in the craw a bit that suddenly they’re all for the kind of woman who isn’t really a woman.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 17/05/2021 23:48

Sympathy to SchoolChaplain, and Bernard Randell and everyone else caught up in this mess. It's bad enough for anyone at risk of losing their job, being shunned by their friends and threatened by zealots etc. But how much worse when the church you love and trust turns against you.

Justhadathought · 18/05/2021 10:40

The C OF E has stopped being an inspirational, faith based community, and has become a woke political commentator.

Justhadathought · 18/05/2021 10:43

For what it's worth, I am 100% for same sex marriage (and wish the CofE would change their standpoint on this but they won't anytime soon) but have to be incredibly careful what I say on gender identity

I suspect that there many of AGP's within the older C of E community, this is why. those who have been cross dressing for decades, and now emboldened, yer still want to retain their cultural and social capital via the anglican church