I'm openly heterosexual.

[PermanentTemporary]

Just read yet another description of a singer as 'openly gay' and thought FFS, still? In 2021?

Maybe gay people dislike this less than I do, given that there are so many countries where it's still illegal to have same sex relationships - maybe it's still worth saying. But I hate it.

I suppose it’s the trend these days to announce your sexuality (or ID).

Rather boring though - and in the arts for goodness sake! When I was a child being ‘musical’ was a euphemism for being gay.

Who described them as "openly gay"? Was it themselves?

It's on Wikipedia.

Sort of thing that makes me think I really should try to become a Wiki editor. But I'm aware that being openly heterosexual myself, I may not understand all the nuances.

There is another thread which highlights the fact there are no openly gay or bisexual players in the top male leagues in the UK. I don't believe there are none so it's not a done deal at all.

Yes. I suppose it's an acknowledgement that there are lots of people who still don't feel able to be out.

I get it OP. If you just described someone as gay or otherwise you’d assume the openness because it’d otherwise be Tyne described as a hidden matter. It’s so sad that anyone suffered or suffers such that their sexual orientation is a matter for discussion beyond- I don’t know- but maybe which dating site they’d want to use

Homosexuality is still illegal in many countries.

Homophobia is still common.

In the UK many people in stricter religious groups (of many flavours) cannot be 'out'.

Many people in same sex partnerships refrain from the norms of straight couples -holding hands, peck on the lips, walking with arms around each other.

There are no out gay men in major football teams and I think the only one who has ever come out was Justin fashanu. And that was years ago.

You're naive OP. It's assumed people are straight- that's the norm. There's no need to come out.

What is it that bothers you so much about this? I don't understand.

The vast majority of entertainment it's all pretty antiquated esp from Hollywood. Male multifaceted lead. Female 'love interest' who is often much younger than the man. It seems that in that area- big ticket Hollywood- in general the stars hide their sexuality.

And we consume a lot of USA media.

It's not of interest to you, fine. Visible gay men and lesbians are still important though. Why get annoyed?

Heterosexual people in the UK disclose their sexuality all the time. It's normal. No one notices.

This thread- is very odd.

And what does it have to do with feminism?

I think the @toffeebutterpopcorn

But then I hear what @NiceGerbil is saying that actually it is - statistically speaking - unusual and isn’t necessarily as easy as it should be to be ‘openly gay’.

I think it’s probably very context specific though in terms of how it comes across.

You are openly heterosexual if you have ever talked about your spouse/partner to people you meet, introduced them to your family and friends, have a picture of them at work, or had a wedding or engagement party. In those cases, you are openly stating your sexuality. Many gay people still don’t feel able to do that because there remains quite a bit of homophobia and discrimination.

The whole ‘why are they making a big deal of it, you don’t see me coming out as straight’ is so disingenuous. You are assumed to be straight unless you openly correct people. If you do correct them, you don’t know how they will act towards you. And every time you or any other straight woman chat to your hairdresser about your husband, you are indeed confirming that you are heterosexual.

@NiceGerbil

Heterosexual people in the UK disclose their sexuality all the time. It's normal. No one notices.

This thread- is very odd.

And what does it have to do with feminism?

All of this.

I think it's important. Even in the arts being gay/lesbian can be a barrier to which opportunities you are considered for. There are very few young/starting out actors I can think of that are out as anything other than straight.

Theres still massive homophobia outside your bubble. Thats why people talk about it. Thats why there is gay pride.

Agree with above posters. Heterosexuality is out in the open all the time. I am openly straight every time i mention my husband or hold his hand in public. It’s not the same at all.
My sister is gay and in a loving long term relationship. They do not hold hands, kiss etc in public because of the reactions they have had in the past. They also have to consider some holiday destinations as it would be illegal for them to share a room, or be found to be gay. They are lucky in most things as they haven’t had too much abuse in the past, but they have experienced some and I can fully understand someone in the public eye not wanting to come out as gay. Homophobia is still a thing, and from my understanding it is much worse for men. My sister has a male gay friend who was beaten terribly a few years ago for walking with his boyfriend

I think when you aren't homophobic it's harder to 'see' homophobia at the moment. I know many 'openly' gay people, and know no one who feels the need to hide it.

If I had homophobic friends I'd probably be more aware of the need, but I don't. The people I see struggling are those who are challenging marriage law in the church- they are out, obviously.

Even if you don’t have homophobic friends and aren’t homophobic yourself, surely you can see homophobia going on the wider world? None of my friends use food banks either but I’m very aware that poverty exists.

I thought the OP wasn’t referring to the person actually being openly gay, but was suggesting that being described using those words in the media was a form of homophobia. That’s how I read the post.

I am openly gay and can assure you it's still not an easy thing to be in 2021.

Plenty of people are not openly gay until they are forced / blackmailed out of the closet (Philip Schofield I'm looking at you).

I'm a bit offended that an openly heterosexual person doesn't get this, but not really surprised.

Yeah, as an ‘openly lesbian’ woman I don’t love it, although it is context-dependent.

“There are no openly gay players in top flight football”, absolutely fine (although you could substitute ‘out’ for ‘openly’ without any loss of meaning).

“He is openly gay” does sound uncomfortably close to “he is openly cheating at Monopoly” “he is openly sharing his dubious political views on Facebook” or whatever. There is a hint that this flagrancy might be better hidden, or subtle, or that there is good reason to keep it under wraps. And of course contextually there have always been and still often are times where homophobic reality bears that out, but if we’re talking about modern day people in eg the UK I would personally prefer the term ‘out’ which does the same job without any of the connotations of shame or shamelessness. And sometimes actually neither are necessary because the context means the outness isn’t in question.

I knew I'd get this wrong. Yes, what I meant is that the phrase 'openly gay' sounds homophobic itself. Not that I think that homophobia doesn't still exist.

Tbh I probably put in feminism because I know the people on this board would have responses to it.

@PermanentTemporary I got your meaning and thank you for your solidarity. As an out lesbian myself, I agree "openly gay" sounds homophobic for reasons mentioned above, that it can be read as insinuating there is something shameful to hide. It's shitty phrasing - use out instead.

And to those moaning why this is on the feminism board... Ummm because some women are lesbian? And frequent this board? And our issues are feminist issues too? Never thought I'd be minded to chastise feminist women on here to "be more intersectional" but seriously... have a word with yourselves. This is why FWR and so-called white feminism are criticised all the time. I didn't want to believe it of this space, but clearly there are some only happy here when the topic of lesbian women are brought up to in relation to trans activism and you're all tripping over yourselves to support our rights to define as same-sex attracted. The phoniness of your solidarity is glaring.

Anyway, thanks again OP - don't let the narkiness of these PPs stop you from speaking up again about subtle homophobia in feminist spaces.

Ah sorry, I misunderstood your original post. Hope my reply was useful anyway! Yes I totally agree that the phrase itself sounds homophobic

I misunderstood as well.

I am a bit miffed at being called homophobic for questioning something that read as though people shouldn't be allowed to talk publically about their sexuality though! The original posts really were not clear.

I have seen people post homophpbic resources on this section before under the guise of being GC so made incorrect assumptions about why the OP posted in this section. My apologies @PermanentTemporary as I understand you were not trying to do that.

@Monicuddle

I thought the OP wasn’t referring to the person actually being openly gay, but was suggesting that being described using those words in the media was a form of homophobia. That’s how I read the post.

Re- reading the opening post I now can't out what the OP was trying to say. I did not however put that interpretation on it. It read , to me, as saying why do gay people keep on going on about being gay?

Pota, I agree. I know prejudice exists. I don't have homophobic friends for obvious reasons, but see it enough in casual comments in the media. I was commenting on it being less obvious there's a need to say 'openly' gay as though that is a different type of being gay. I don't live in a particularly progressive area, it's a small mining village in the arse end of nowhere, but we have gay couples on our street and several same sex parents at the small school.

It's shameful it still necessary anywhere. It sickens me that people don't come to church because of an assumption they will be unwelcome. It sickens me the church hasn't done better.

It's bad writing, that is part of the irritation. Wiki is hardly going to say "So and so is a secretly gay actor" so it's superfluous.