Accused of transphobia

[AtalantaRun]

Just need to vent really. I'm part of a private Facebook group for people who have bought a particular gentle parenting course. It's a very nicey nicey group, a fairly large proportion of American members. Overall a good place where people are generally respectful to each other and helpful.

Someone asked about info around gender non conforming children and I posted my experiences with my son, who was very 'feminine' in some of his interests and still is. The thrust of my post was I support him to have any interest or preference he wants, but don't make a big deal out of it. I'll add my post to the bottom of this one.

I get a reply about how I'm not supporting him by not talking too much about it and society will tell him anyway and I could cause him to be overwhelmed, that it sounded like I was only willing to support him to a point and stuff about trans kids identities. I replied reiterating the way I support him, including that I want him to grow up not seeing certain things as only for girls and vice versa. That I have spoken to him when it's arisen but mostly it doesn't. I get a reply about how I need to "unpack" what I'm thinking and continued implication I'm less than supportive and understanding etc.

At this point I'm really stressed. Why am I so stressed?? I just find this kind of conversation makes me really on edge. The woman publicly standing up against all this are just awe inspiring to me because I find even a private group thread impossible.

I decide it's silly to be stressed over a stranger on social media, but can't find how to mute a specific conversation on Facebook like you can twitter, so just delete my replies. I don't want notifications anymore. So then this person posts again saying my transphobia is concerning and they think while it's great I've realised I've done wrong, my comments shouldnt be allowed to be deleted. They strawman paraphrase me saying "it's not regressive to support a child supporting gender" when what I'd actually said was "it's regressive to tell a child you doesn't have sex stereotypical preferences that they may be born in the wrong body".

Anyway the whole thing just makes me so wound up and anxious and I've got to take my hat off to the many brave women who are not so pathetic as me. I don't know if its a deep need to people please or what that makes it so hard. It feels so obvious to me that kids should be kids but I feel like I'm seen as a monster for it. And judged on my parenting.

Whew. Anyway sorry if you've got this far I just needed to get it off my chest. My original transphobic post is below if anyone is interested.

This is the trouble with posting on the internet. You will come across someone who vehemently disagrees with you when you probably wouldn't in real life.

I think you should feel safe and secure in how you are approaching this. Just because this person is in a "gentle parenting" group (whatever that means) doesn't mean they can't be wrong.

I think your post was great; thoughtful, insightful, intelligent. How that could be deemed offensive or need 'unpacking', I do not know.

I relate to what you say about how much it gets to you when strangers on SM challenge what you're saying. I no longer get involved in this sort of conversation on FB, and I have abandoned Twitter altogether because I get very anxious when I get drawn into that stuff, and I found it was beginning to occupy too much of my headspace in my day to day life.

I have a DD and a DS, both now in their teens. They have both had short and long hair, both worn dresses and trousers, both played with dolls, trains, lego and toy kitchens. We took the same approach as you when they were little, and I am happy that the decisions we made along the way have helped- and continue to help- them both to become well-rounded individuals.

Also, the respondent's reply didn't make much sense to me:

I get a reply about how I'm not supporting him by not talking too much about it and society will tell him anyway and I could cause him to be overwhelmed

How could not talking too much about something be overwhelming for the child? Surely the opposite would be true? Filling his head with nonsense about wrong bodies and identities and all that would be far more overwhelming, IMO.

Just letting him get on with enjoying his childhood without needing to question, analyse or probe is the very opposite of overwhelming.

You were speaking complete sense. The other person probably has a “trans child” and feels like your reasonableness, thoughtful and sane approach is showing her up.

Maybe just reply with an Elsa “Let it Go” meme!

Your post was great.
I would be inclined to elaborate on the point you made re the values in your country and “out-Woke” the other parent by asserting that you reject their imposing their cultural imperialism, that you deleted your comments because you won’t be engaged on this topic further, and you consider that they have their own unpacking to do. Then maybe block them.
But that’s just me.

I'm with you OP, it just seems a sensible common sense way to raise a child.

Your post was lovely, compassionate and sensible.

The other parent sounds like an ideological, authoritarian arse.

If the general tone of the group send to be supporting them, run for the hills.

I got called transphobic for asking my ex not to kick me into a wall. It reminded him that he’s so much bigger than me and that’s transphobic. So I wouldn’t set much by the label tbh.

Your reply was excellent, showing kindness, insight and lacking any negativity towards different opinions. You’re a brilliant mum letting your little one explore their place in their world without demanding them to have a fixed presentation or to ‘fix themselves’ according to stereotypes.

Brava and don’t let the unimaginative pedants steeped in stereotypical rubbish bring your down!

You sound absolutely fine. They are being unreasonable (I know not the right board)

I, too, have one older child who doesn't care about clothes and has short hair, but isn't sporty/ 'boyish' and one who's long hair, loves pink (although hides it at school now), wanted sparkly dresses just as much as ninja costumes (I have an adorable picture from his nursery where every child but two - one boy one girl were in princess dresses), but is more rough and tumble - because they're both children, who are human, with their own likes, dislikes and interests just the same as everyone else. Claiming it's anything more than that is just mad.

Let kids be kids.

Your reply was so eloquent and balanced OP.

You explained everything calmly and sensibly.

You are not the one with the problem.

You're perfectly reasonable and right. It's frightening how cracked so many people are with all this identity stuff. There was a row that went on for days in a Facebook knitting group I'm in where people had started posts with the words "ladies" or 'guys' .. this isn't allowed because it's not inclusive .. I just despair sometimes.

Completely agree, OP.

I brought my son up very similarly to you. He's now a 22 year old man. Not a very 'masculine one; certainly not a 'macho' one. But a man, nevertheless. As he would, of course, have always been!

Sadly, he's completely bought into the trans stuff and the fact that he was more feminine presenting but doesn't regard himself as a woman yet other equally feminine presenting men do (or at least non binary), only serves to reinforce his belief that it must be real 🙄

I've also had people tell me that I'm 'part of the problem' having not reinforced sex stereotypes when he was younger and that it was parents like me who paved the way for the current nonsense. Also 🙄

@OldChinaJug

Completely agree, OP.

I brought my son up very similarly to you. He's now a 22 year old man. Not a very 'masculine one; certainly not a 'macho' one. But a man, nevertheless. As he would, of course, have always been!

Sadly, he's completely bought into the trans stuff and the fact that he was more feminine presenting but doesn't regard himself as a woman yet other equally feminine presenting men do (or at least non binary), only serves to reinforce his belief that it must be real 🙄

I've also had people tell me that I'm 'part of the problem' having not reinforced sex stereotypes when he was younger and that it was parents like me who paved the way for the current nonsense. Also 🙄

Oh wow, you can't win can you!? It's interesting that your son doesn't think it's scary the path he could have ended up down but for 10 years and different parents. I find women who were tomboys often seem to 'get it' the most because they can see they dodged a bit of a bullet.

Does he feel because he didn't think being more 'feminine' meant he was trans, then the people who do feel they are trans must really mean it? Perhaps they just didn't have thoughtful, laid back parents like you??

@ProudExclu

I got called transphobic for asking my ex not to kick me into a wall. It reminded him that he’s so much bigger than me and that’s transphobic. So I wouldn’t set much by the label tbh.

That's awful, I'm so sorry that happened to you. What a massive fucking bastarding arsehole he sounds like.

Just leave the group and forget the whole thing

Definitely! What you are doing is absolutely the right thing.

Social media is not the best place to make friends or meet like minds.

My son sounds just like yours Atalanta. I let him dress whatever way he wants. Today he went to school in a pink t-shirt from the girls section with sequins all over it. He felt awesome and he looked awesome. He's just started to grow out his hair into the long style that he wants.

I don't make it a big deal either, I want to be the person who models the ideal of no stereotypes and holds that baseline every day at home. Why would you hype it up in case someone mocks him? That's an odd attitude. If that happens we can deal with it then.

I don't need to "unpack" anything and neither do you.

You were speaking complete sense. The other person probably has a “trans child” and feels like your reasonableness, thoughtful and sane approach is showing her up

Good point!

For some people life is all about passing trends, appearances and fitting in with the group. You don't need it!

Your post is very reasonable and balanced. But you are not dealing with reasonable and balanced people

This, really. It's hard if you're used to discussing things in an egalitarian way, and then people react in an emotive, faith-driven way. I guess maybe like an agnostic discussing religion with an extreme hardliner.

Sorry you got crap for it. FWIW, if it's an American group then I think that will make it doubly hard - different words, cultural cues, context, etc.

I agree. You sound lovely OP and I love the fact your son can enjoy dressing up as Elsa, or anyone else, without it being a big thing. I would have been upset too. I suspect every other member of the group is quietly agreeing with you - those comments are crazy

I'm an American and there's an argument style that, if it includes "faith" or "God," I would just not even engage...evangelicals have a mission and they are raised to believe they have insight because Jesus has blessed them. I had to leave a FB group that started out as women against Trump...but saw too many fevered attacks on women who were just asking critical questions. Questioning = lack of faith.

Also, I'd be willing to be there were lurkers who didn't stand up for you, but agreed with you. The mods on American women's FB groups have also been completely taken over by moms who are TRA activists on behalf of their children and you just can't argue with them. It's like hitting your head against bricks.

You sound wonderful.

Simply don't respond ever to any pms.

If you comment, don't get dragged into an argument, don't respond.

There will be others reading and thinking the same.

I fooking hate the arrogant language used "you need to unpack..."

They never actually debate the point.

It's slurs or passive aggressive lectures. Or outright aggression.

Oh and "isn't that sexist?" Goes a long way.

The current narrative is that trans is a hormonal biological condition akin to intersex conditions.

It's still sexist, and homophobic.