I am really struggling with wanting to remain with my husband

[BeanandBall]

Not sure whether to post this in FWR or Relationships board, but I am finding it more and more difficult in my relationship because my husband just doesn't get it.
Ive name changed but am a regular and not hugely active within Feminist Activism but definitely on the fringes of groups, attend lectures and get involved in smallish ways. I read a lot and talk to my teenage children about what I'm doing.
He seems to agree very much in general with what I talk about, but he still doesn't get it. He is CONSTANTLY trying to minimise behaviour of his clients akin to what people must have done about Jimmy Saville. I fairly gently explain why consist patterns of appalling behaviour aren't just coincidences and minimising them and not taking affirmative action is awful. I had a (minor) incident happen to me: someone known to us both as a nasty character was taking photographs of me in public and he refused to believe me. I consistently "call" things and correctly predict how it will turn out (along the lines of "if you don't do X then Y will happen) and he repeatedly ignores it to both our detriment (the number of times I've had to bite my tongue in saying I told you so). He's always" playing devil's advocate " (basically saying women make stuff up). Despite claiming to understand many feminist issues, he just doesn't behave like he does and its really really affecting me.
Am I on my own here? I feel like my eyes are finally open and I'm seeing a jerk instead of the man I loved.

I see DH as a work in progress. He is respectful to women, does more than his fair share and treats DD fantastically.

And he sometimes comes out with nonsense.

I far prefer that the other other way around. However, disbelieving me... that wouldn't work in my house.

I feel like my eyes are finally open and I'm seeing a jerk instead of the man I loved

Something very useful I learned here - when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

He sounds clueless but I wonder if he is taking the opposite/an alternative side almost as a reflex; or hoping to make you feel better by saying that 'everything is ok you don't need to worry'. It might not be baked in.

I'm sorry, OP.

A partner should above all be able to listen and hear you, I think.

Would it be worth saying to him how you feel? Have you tried talking about how you are feeling about the relationship, rather than the issues? Would he consider counselling?

Maybe suggesting some active listening? It's a bit terrifying, but potentially transformative.

You have 10 minutes. Your partner must listen, without interruption or response, other than to maybe nod or look at you. They are not to respond for a period of time - a day or a week.

Next time, your partner has 10 minutes. You have the same rules. (You could toss a coin to see who goes first).

It sounds exhausting tbh. You don't need him to play devil's advocate all the time and the minimizing of clients' behaviour and not believing you about the nasty character all sounds as if he thinks he is superior and knows more/better than you. Does this pattern of behaviour occur in any other areas of your lives together eg kids, money, friends, jobs?

I’m going to go against the grain here, and say that I’d take this as a opportunity.

Instead of wasting time trying to bring him over on issues you care about, I’d spend the time reading, talking to likeminded people, going to lectures and just generally getting myself educated to do what I can to promote change where it matters.

It took me some time to understand GC issues and I had to get there on my own. I’d leave him to it, and use your energies elsewhere.

But, if he’s a jerk in general, then ignore the above and consider your future.

He may well be a jerk but being constantly lectured is no fun. How would you feel about being lectured every night on say the benefits of the Tory party and constantly corrected as to why they're better at xyz than whatever party you support?

I can no longer be bothered to waste any energy on someone who doesn't believe me when I say something happened to me.
I guess I could put more effort in but its just more wife work as far as I am concerned. It damages your self worth and wears you down.

It sounds to me like you may be both reacting to each other. Most people can't live calling out everything, or being lectured to all the time on the same topic, and they will begin to push back at it. Nor do they want to be constantly dissecting their clients morals and behaviours as if they are somehow supposed to take responsibility for them.

You can't control what he does, I'd suggest cooling it a bit and focus your interactions with him on other things. You might find it allows him to push back less.

From what you've posted the issue is he (like many men) gives lip service to "understanding" their female partners experiences and perspectives "in general" but demonstrates the reverse when faced with reality.

Truth is he doesn't "get it" nor does he seem to want to.

He's happy presenting a smug facade of support that evaporates as soon as any actual effort (thinking/action/support) is appropriate.

He's a man who presents a thin veneer of "support" covering their fundamental contempt of women because that's the "easy" path and one which also allows him to fool himself into thinking he is "good guy".

I couldn't spend waste my life with someone like this.

I don't "educate" my DH about feminism and my experiences of being female. We talk to each other and most importantly listen. Not just about feminism obviously but a whole raft of subjects and whilst we don't always agree we get to a place where we understand each other's position.

We don't play devils advocate (though frankly I don't think that's what your DH is doing - I think he's actually using that as an excuse to tell you what he really thinks).

I can't advise what to do but you only have one life and for me at least the idea of spending it with someone whose essentially gas lighting you isn't one I choose.

He's a man who presents a thin veneer of "support" covering their fundamental contempt of women because that's the "easy" path and one which also allows him to fool himself into thinking he is "good guy".

I do somewhat agree about the lip service element, but ultimately you can't suggest that men are bad guys because they aren't overly invested in feminism, unless you believe women who don't actively educate people on say male suicide/homelessness/racism/environmental issues/etc are also bad people too. Some people care a lot about women's issues whilst others care more about animal welfare and other things.

@MrsTroutfireVII

He's a man who presents a thin veneer of "support" covering their fundamental contempt of women because that's the "easy" path and one which also allows him to fool himself into thinking he is "good guy".

I do somewhat agree about the lip service element, but ultimately you can't suggest that men are bad guys because they aren't overly invested in feminism, unless you believe women who don't actively educate people on say male suicide/homelessness/racism/environmental issues/etc are also bad people too. Some people care a lot about women's issues whilst others care more about animal welfare and other things.

I didn't say men in general were "bad guys" because they weren't overtly interested in feminism.

The point was that IME (in a male dominated profession) many men pay lip service to "feminism" whilst acting in a way that's anything but and her partner fits this pattern.

It's not about men having an active "participation" in feminism as much as it's about the difference between those who act in accordance with what they say and those who do not.

@DeRigueurMortis

From what you've posted the issue is he (like many men) gives lip service to "understanding" their female partners experiences and perspectives "in general" but demonstrates the reverse when faced with reality.

Truth is he doesn't "get it" nor does he seem to want to.

He's happy presenting a smug facade of support that evaporates as soon as any actual effort (thinking/action/support) is appropriate.

He's a man who presents a thin veneer of "support" covering their fundamental contempt of women because that's the "easy" path and one which also allows him to fool himself into thinking he is "good guy".

I couldn't spend waste my life with someone like this.

I don't "educate" my DH about feminism and my experiences of being female. We talk to each other and most importantly listen. Not just about feminism obviously but a whole raft of subjects and whilst we don't always agree we get to a place where we understand each other's position.

We don't play devils advocate (though frankly I don't think that's what your DH is doing - I think he's actually using that as an excuse to tell you what he really thinks).

I can't advise what to do but you only have one life and for me at least the idea of spending it with someone whose essentially gas lighting you isn't one I choose.

This

It's not about men having an active "participation" in feminism as much as it's about the difference between those who act in accordance with what they say and those who do not.

Oh, I see your point now. Not that he's not a good guy in general, but morw that he's not the feminist man he pretends to be. I think this is a common thing in society and see it a lot with people paying lip service to things like environmental issues but still not walking the walk.

Although it's also not an uncommon thing IME for men to 'agree' with their wives to avoid an earful.

My DH is empathetic, respectful, utterly persuaded of the need for feminism; but still doesn't get everything.

He thinks I've become worryingly radicalised. I've basically stopped talking about the issues at home.

We were talking a couple of weeks ago and he asked where I stood on post-op TW. I said I respected their choices and wished them well but humans still can't change sex.

But where should they go in terms of facilities, they can't use the men's, he said. Was visibly shocked when I said it wasn't women's problem to solve.

He still doesn't quite get the 'tw in women's facilities=total loss of single sex spaces'. Or that he's still, however subconsciously, expecting women to compromise.

And he is, I repeat, one of the best. I find it utterly depressing.

The refusal to believe me about the person taking photos of me would very definitely be a cause of concern for me. TBH he sounds like an arse

@StillFemale

The refusal to believe me about the person taking photos of me would very definitely be a cause of concern for me. TBH he sounds like an arse

Yes, I was thinking that.

I don't really know what you mean OP, about Jimmy Savile type clients but it sounds very alarming.

I know not all men are going to get everything but if his default is not to believe you, that's a huge red flag.

Tea "But where should they go in terms of facilities, they can't use the men's, he said. Was visibly shocked when I said it wasn't women's problem to solve."

Did you ask how he plans to solve it?

@Ostara212

Tea "But where should they go in terms of facilities, they can't use the men's, he said. Was visibly shocked when I said it wasn't women's problem to solve."

Did you ask how he plans to solve it?

I said it was up to men to make safe spaces and be less violent and intolerant.

Which he totally accepted. But unspoken was 'yeah but they won't, will they?'

I left it there. He's a reflective type so happy to see what filters through.

What did you want him to do about the person taking photos of you?

I suspect there is an issue of cognitive dissonance here.

A good man would do something about it if his clients were behaving badly or someone he knew was upsetting his wife by taking pictures. Your DH either doesn't want or doesn't feel capable of doing something about it, but he still wants to think of himself as a good man, so he lessens his cognitive dissonance by convincing himself that there is nothing to act on in the first place.

I guess the thing to work out is why he isn't acting on these things. Is it because he doesn't care? Is it because he lacks the courage to stand up to other men? Is it because he fears that he will experience some detriment if he acts (e.g. if he stands up to his clients will he lose work)?

Sorry you are going through a tough time, OP.
I thought a couple of phrases you used were interesting. You said that you
fairly gently explain why consist patterns of appalling behaviour aren't just coincidences...
And
the number of times I've had to bite my tongue in saying I told you so

You seem to be self-censoring for some reason, so it may be productive to unpick why you are doing that.

If I am being very generous to your DP, just wondering if he is not seeing how much this affects you (or women) because you are naturally a kind, considerate and gentle person - he has really lucked out! - and so you are protecting his feelings by not telling him in blunt enough words (or ways he understands) that he is in the wrong and being a jerk and you are frustrated with him treating this stuff like it's a game when it's your reality.

If he works with challenging clients, it can constantly reinforce the message that he is one of the 'good guys' and not like them. Hence creating a massive blind spot...

Maybe you could stop censoring yourself and instead be regularly saying 'I told you so'?

What would happen if you did?