Things that never happen and no-one needs to worry about preventing

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

In Melbourne, in the state of Victoria, Australia, where they already have self-ID in the state, it has been alleged a teenage girl was sexually attacked in a women's toilet by a man who followed her in.

7news.com.au/news/crime/heidelberg-alleged-rape-after-teen-followed-into-toilet-block-in-melbourne-c-2771537.amp?

On Friday April 30, the 15-year-old went into a toilet block near a supermarket on Burgundy Street in Heidelberg around 1.20pm.

She was allegedly followed into the cubicle by a 45-year-old man and then sexually assaulted.

I hasten to add that there is nothing at present to suggest that the man identified as trans. But it is horribly possible that he was witnessed going into that toilet and no-one dared challenge him, because they didn't want to risk being accused of bigotry.

More about the legal situation in Victoria.

Report from 2019
"Transgender and gender-diverse people in Victoria will be able to change the sex on their birth certificate without having to undergo gender reassignment surgery, after reforms were passed in parliament overnight."

www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/momentous-night-victorian-birth-certificate-reform-passed-20190828-p52leu.html

She may well have noticed him herself but has been taught to ignore her instincts. I'm so sad for her.

That is easily plausible.

A lot of the online rhetoric around the issue, especially in the content aimed at teenagers, suggests that seeming visibly cautious around someone who might identify as transgendered is an act of transphobic violence.

Ah I know the answer

This person wasn't trans just a bloke (true totally)
The idea that everyone should assume that anyone who in the past would have been clocked as going into the wrong facilities, is going to the right ones for their gender and should not be challenged. (No indication that either the girl or anyone else noticed in this case. The fact it's pushed never to challenge/ worry is an issue generally though).
Women and girls get sexually attacked all the time so what's different.
There's no law or force field stopping men going into areas for women anyway so what's different.
No man would pretend to be trans just to access women's facilities with bad intent.

In the end this is not a report about s trans person it's a bog standard man who seems to have not only assaulted her in the toilets but made her go to a hotel with him god only knows what he had planned. Terrifying.

The fact that some men will go to great lengths to commit sex offences is apparently a fact of life for women and girls and well what can you do.

The fact that eroding the social conventions about who goes where, saying that eg leaving if someone you think is s bloke comes in is a microaggression etc etc will in no way increase the risk of these types of incidents, and anyway men wouldn't do it anyway. Unless they were going to do it anyway. And then well that's a problem women and girls already have and not anyone elses problem at all.

Microaggression! That's the word I was looking for! Thank you, Gerbil.

Yes. We don't know if she had any chance to leave. (Just to be clear, the responsibility for rape is 100% on the rapist, not on the victim.)

But if you are a woman or girl in a toilet or changing room, and you do see someone who was observed male as birth entering, it is a 'microaggression' if you leave. And if the person notices, they will probably write a blog about how your microaggression made them feel. And people will leave comments underneath about what a vile t**f you were.

TBH though many girls have real problems with this stuff anyway due to socialisation.

I remember so many times a man was being creepy and I thought if I get up and move poorly people will look and wonder why. It will be embarrassing. He's creeping me out but he's not done anything tangible etc.

It's how were brought up and society enforcers it. The amount of threads on here where a woman says a man did xyz and so I just left etc. And there will be loads of posters saying he was probably just being friendly, what an over reaction etc. And it's going to be women posting that.

The double bind is that if something does happen then it's all why didn't you get up and go if you were creeped out.

So in this case if she did notice him, if I was her at that age. I would have thought.

Maybe he's looking for his wife or daughter
Maybe he works here and he's checking they are clean etc
Or maybe come to fix a broken dryer or something
And now
Maybe he's trans

Because making a fuss is what we are not supposed to do. And walking out immediately counts as making a fuss.

Then something happens. You saw there was a man following you in. Why didn't you just leave?

Same old.

In the end we are taught that hurting the feelings of an innocent man is a terrible thing to do, and the benefit of the doubt must be given.

In the end we've always been discouraged strongly by society to follow our instincts in case we upset a man. And also that if a man does something it's our fault.

And this is reflected in how the police etc handle sex offences against women and girls.

The popular argument that men are going to attack you anyway so what's the problem is really appalling though.

In the end we've always been discouraged strongly by society to follow our instincts in case we upset a man. And also that if a man does something it's our fault.

We have to simultaneously have always known what the man’s intentions were (past tense) but not presume his motives (future tense), in order to protect ourselves from failing to take appropriate action in our best interests whilst avoiding thinking all men are i) potential rapists or ii) not women.

If an assault occurs, we are to have always known that would happen, and left
If an assault doesn’t occur, we are to have always known that would happen, and stayed.

It’s like we have to live in every parallel universe at any moment.

UK Kircaldy and Dunfernline
2019

Dundee Chronicle
(extract)
"A mother has blasted the sentence given to a sex offender who attacked her 10-year-old daughter in a supermarket toilet.

The woman – who cannot be named to protect the identity of her child – voiced fury that Katie Dolatowski had been freed to serve her sentence in the community.

Dolatowski, 18, sexually assaulted the girl in the toilets of Morrisons, Kirkcaldy.

She grabbed the terrified youngster by the face, shoved her into the cubicle and ordered her to remove her trousers.

But instead of being jailed at Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court, Dolatowski, who identifies as a woman but was believed by her victim’s family to be a man, was given community payback and tagging orders.

The mum felt “very, very let down” and said: “I don’t have any confidence whatsoever that he will not go out and do something equally as bad or worse.”

The girl had been sledging when the assault occurred on March 4, last year, a month after Dolatowski had filmed a 12-year-old girl on the toilet in another supermarket in Dunfermline." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3496984-Article-in-Dundee-Courier-about-assault-of-10-year-old-girl-in-supermarket-toilets

(Dolatowski was male)

I want to see women and girls encouraged to be outspoken and stick up for themselves. Encouraged to not be passive or submissive and take up self defence.
Bollocks to all this putting the feelings of others first.
I’m stick and tired of all this telling females to put others first, be kind etc.
Trust your instincts, don’t be afraid of listening to your gut.

There's a couple of things there.

The first is that it's not usually explicit, female socialisation, nor male socialisation. And it's not just parents. It's the whole of society, it's across the media, it's in schools etc. It's pervasive and most people can't even see it, don't realise they're doing it. It's subtle. Changing that is a massive task. Especially when in general people are pretty comfy with the status quo.

But despite that, plenty of girls are bolshy. Confident. Defiant even in the face of nonsense.

I suspect a lot of it changes around puberty for many. I've read that with confidence that at that sort of secondary age boys confidence increases and girls decreases.

And part of that change is the way people look at you and treat you. I remember it was such a shock. I went from child to suddenly lots of men looking at me not as a child, a person. But sort of disconnected. Not the face, no eye contact. The body and it was unpleasant. Looking back it's the feeling of being sized up as an object. Something they might like to consume. Predatory. No human connection.

And what can you do? They're only looking at you. If a man shouts something from a car, then they're gone. Nothing you can do.

If it's an approach on the street I think it's a big ask to expect a child to be able to, what exactly? What is a13 yo girl supposed to do that will help anything when a random man says something as she walks past? She's not the one with the power. The fact he could get nasty is always there. And she's a kid and he's a man. What exactly is the plan here for her to fix this?

The other point. I never had time for letting men in the pub down gently. That thing where you do it so nicely, treading the line between getting them to go, and not risking getting their backs up.

We started going out to pubs from 16. And I'd not play that game. I was polite but firm. No. Many men do not like hearing no even politely from girls. Many IME get very aggressive very fast. And in the end, he's twice my size and he's in my face shouting. What then? It's not actually advisable.

With all this it's always back to girls/ women having to do xyz.

The problem here is the men. I don't accept it's inevitable that such a large number of men will do this no matter what. Street harassment levels vary around the world. They do it because they can, because society accepts it. It could be changed if attitudes to this behaviour changed.

Putting it on a female child to handle grown men harassing them is not fair IMO.

taught to ignore her instinct

Exactly.