Omg I did it, I talked to a canvasser

[mamas12]

The first canvasser in my area I asked her a few questions re her party etc and took a deep breathe and asked her what her stance was on women’s sex based rights
She was ok
She said it could be a contentious and emotional issue and she didn’t want to put trans people down she supports trans people but by protesting against the Womens Place event was not on
She also said the gra wasn’t going to go through now and if the torys get through in Westminster then it won’t change for another four years so there’s time to try and get a proper dialogue going
So there we are I felt reading between the lines she was supportive of women’s sex based rights so I’m going to vote for her

I suppose my thoughts are that if every individual with any kind of influence can work from the inside’ so to speak
Work Within the system to change and challenge it

Posted too soon
Anyone within the system to challenge and change it would be a good thing

Well done OP. I got a Labour canvasser too but he just seemed baffled then started screaming TWAW at me and stormed off. No discussion, did know the topic. I was being really polite and factual. I felt dreadful after. But who on earth do I vote for now? I have never never voted Tory, but are they the only option?

A bit of a tangent but I think this 'rights aren't pie' rhetoric is shortsighted in so many ways.
Since, in many ways, rights do work a bit like pie. When women went into the workplace, they took jobs that would otherwise have gone to a man. When women's football became a popular spectator sport after the war, they were banned because fans were navigating away from the men's game.
MRA are very aware of this. Equality does feel like oppression if you're used to being at the top of the hierarchy. When South Africa introduced positive discrimination, many white SA emigrated because of the extra competition for the top jobs. It was needed in SA obviously, to combat the horribly unfair situation that had developed, but that doesn't mean people weren't affected at all. Before anyone says I am being racist I agree with the policies, as far as I understand them, but that doesn't mean individuals didn't feel it negatively impacted them.
And in this case tra are trying to take the rights put in place to make things equal. If we use the SA example, it'd be a bit like the white middle class identifying as a minority to position themselves over the black citizens, who were rightly given positive discrimination to rebalance the power structures.

@Igmum

Well done OP. I got a Labour canvasser too but he just seemed baffled then started screaming TWAW at me and stormed off. No discussion, did know the topic. I was being really polite and factual. I felt dreadful after. But who on earth do I vote for now? I have never never voted Tory, but are they the only option?

My experience and position exactly. It was really upsetting.

[quote Timestablesaretables]@countrypunk it sounds like she thinks that women's rights and trans rights are diametrically opposed then.
Funny, I thought that they were saying there were enough rights for everyone, not taking anything away from women, blah blah.[/quote]
Yeah right. I wondered if all the canvassers had just been given a line to parrot, should this topic come up. She clearly knew nothing about it.

well done, OP!

So sorry you went through this too @countrypunk. It's grim isn't it? When I was a kid I remember canvassing with my aunt and uncle (my aunt stood for Labour many times) and we used to have some cracking discussions on the doorsteps. Challenging stuff, agreeing with it, all great. This is absolutely an ideology which cannot be discussed or questioned. Bonfires are being prepared for the heretics and that isn't good

It seems my experience was quite mild compared to others even though I was nervous I am so sorry that others had a bad time of it

That's exactly how it felt @Igmum. As soon as the words 'sex-based rights' came out of my mouth, I was condemned. It's the shutting down of any kind of discussion that really disturbs me.

Males rights activists have played an absolute blinder with this ideology.

@LadyBuffOfBuffdonia

I suppose my trepidation is that if there's nothing in party policy holding individual candidates to their promises, then what's to stop them saying what you want to hear to get their vote, then using their 'voice' to push through changes you specifically said would influence how you voted.

Yes, I suppose personal integrity might stop them doing this, but there's no guarantee they won't just go along with what the party is broadly saying.

I think in a way it's worse than that. A candidate may totally agree with you honestly but in general won't be allowed to vote against the party line on almost any issue. Whatever they think, whatever their constituents think.

(Incidentally, I have come to think that this is a much more important and debilitating problem than FFTP voting.)

But anyway, I think if you vote for someone in this scenario, what you are hoping is to get a voice in the caucus, rather than on the floor of the house or voting. The more elected members that don't support the party line, the more it may prove difficult for the leadership to maintain control over the issue.

It makes it even harder to know how to balance that hope over the other voting options.

I too had a call from a Labour canvasser - "Can I give you this for the local elections?"

" Is it the labour party? Then no" "Can I ask why?"
"Certainly - until your party knows what a woman is, I won't vote for them".....puzzled look - so I explain that if he puts on a dress and says he's a woman - he will be "No I won't" He replied - in some confusion
"You will according to your party" So, bless him, he puts up a spirited fightback, local elections are not the same, good people and so on. But, as I said to him, it's still the same party, and no matter how good you are at a local level they are under the guise of their leaders, and Spineless Starmer is no example to anyone. Sorry, but that's that. And away he went. However I noticed that Izzard was also in the area later that week, maybe that added to my comments

I raised this issue recently with a Labour canvasser, a local councillor. They were surprisingly well informed and we had a sensible, respectful discussion. I was impressed by the individual’s understanding of the need to balance rights, but pointed out their party has already closed off the possibility of a reasoned debate at a national level by picking a side (TWAW). While the party maintains that stance, we cannot even start to have an even-handed conversation about this issue. I told the canvasser their candidate will not be getting my vote. They were disappointed but understood why.

Me too ; I got PlaidCymrued on my doorstep last Friday .
Unless they categorically remove the self ID policy before next Thursday I will be spoiling my ballot paper .
(In the meantime I will check out the MerchedCymru website .)

We’ve not had anyone in person this time around but whenever the last local election was I told the local Lib Dem doorknocker exactly why I wouldn’t vote for them. I was actually shaking with fear/rage as I did feel quite intimidated by the men on my doorstep especially as their view was they knew a trans women and they were fine so it wasn’t an issue and I was clearly as nasty bigoted woman with very measured polite argument...but a bad person. Clearly didn’t listen to a word I said.

Am probably on a list somewhere.

Such a shame as have always voted Lib Dem but no more.

I had a Labour candidate round and said no I can't vote for your party as they don't know what a woman is. It led to this exchange
We do I am a woman
Women's prisons - not Labour policy
Women short lists - not Labour policy
Etc,etc, etc. She was getting really shirty and I knew more than she did. I suggested she look at party policy and closed the door. Complete waste of time it is a Labour area so she hadn't even bothered to find out what the party policies are

@LadyBuffOfBuffdonia

*She immediately launched into a diatribe about transgender people's rights*

Apart from anything else I wouldn't want anyone this stupid (because they can't critically engage their brain) representing my interests.

This was a canvasser and not an actual candidate though. Being honest rather than tactical.

@Cagedbirdsinging

Me too ; I got PlaidCymrued on my doorstep last Friday . Unless they categorically remove the self ID policy before next Thursday I will be spoiling my ballot paper . (In the meantime I will check out the MerchedCymru website .)

How did the conversation go? Was it a canvasser or a candidate?

Well done all of you. Make more noise. 👏

I did the same to a Labour Party phone canvasser - poor lad got his ear well and truly talked off, on the subject of women’s sex based rights. And, on a personal level, he agreed with me.

You ladies all inspired me to send an email to our Labour Counsellor who posted a leaflet urging us to vote for him (didn't actually visit in person).

Here is his reply to my question relating to the redefinition of the word woman within the labour party and same sex spaces

Single sex: I have to say that I’m not aware that the Labour Party has any plans to redefine the meaning of “woman”. Personally I can think of nothing more ludicrous. In truth, I do not think it is for men to decide anything “for” women; if, as you say, single sex spaces are a lifeline, that should be more than sufficient for everyone to accept. I guess that freedom of expression means that there will continue to be “noises off”, but I’m sure that as far as the Labour Party as a whole is concerned, that’s all it will be.

So... Hmm.... I do actually support Labour naturally. This person isn't screaming "bigot" at me (a low bar I know) so I might actually vote for him.

I haven’t got to play with any recent canvassers for ages. They used to pitch up outside out local Waitrose and if always go and have a nice wee chat (whilst DH pretended not to know me).

That seems like a very fancy way of saying, I'm not sure what the party's plans are, but my personal opinion is xyz.

I'd be asking him to obtain clarification on what exactly labour will do to protect sex based rights before I committed.

It does seem representatives fall into either:

Twaw: you bigot.
Women's sex based rights are at risk? Poppycock.

Neither is reassuring.

Yes his reply did rather fall into the "what on earth are you on about?" Camp rather than the "yes I'm aware of the problem and will address it" camp or even the "you're a bigot" camp.
He's obviously not woke though so that's alright by me. His thing is environmental matters in our local area (another question I put in my email) and his reply about that was on board with my concerns. So... Hmm now I'm swinging around like Fred Astaire wrt Labour.

@Gwenhwyfar... a canvasser . Male , young , confident whilst declaring the party 'self ID' thing but became a bit twitchy when I pressed the issue . He said it was a 'complicated issue', I replied that 'no , it's really very simple . There are men and there are women . Sex matters .'
A part of me thinks he didn't really believe it himself but Aaron Wynne was walking by as we discussed things .
He kept pointing out that they lost to the Tories by only 750 votes last time so PC was desperate for my vote . Desperate .