How much do you experience /see manipulation and violence perpetrated by men against women irl?

[Parakeetkeet]

I am one of these millenials who LOVES being single. I dont know what it is but I rarely develop feelings for anyone.

After reading this article... www.msnbc.com/opinion/men-are-becoming-more-violent-against-women-around-world-google-n1265072

I have to wonder the likelihood of having dodged a massive bullet. Well I think about this all the time. How much do you witness violence or controlling behavior affecting your own friends and relations ?? Do the figures in this article surprise you?

Personally, when I was growing up my mind was destroyed by gaslighting. I had such a diminished state of mind, it was SO bad. How common is it in your own circles? I knew/know too many women more or less like me in that way...

Still this article shocks me l!! How bad do you think manipulation is and what are reliable tricks you use to trust men?

Well, up close and personal for 25 years.

I don't (other than a handful of family members and long term friends). I've no interest in another relationship. There aren't any tricks, just decent self esteem, being healed from trauma, and caution in new relationships.

Sexual violence and some domestic abuse when I was younger (15-20). Some controlling behaviour and harassment.
I'd say I'm very sensitive to controlling men.
It made me more cautious and look at who I was attracted to. I've been in a happy relationship for many years with someone who is the absolute opposite of those early men and is kind and loving.
It hasn't put me off being in relationships with men.
Among friends and family, there has certainly been a spectrum of abuse experienced. Quite a lot of controlling behaviour and financial abuse and less physical violence.

Everywhere. All the time. Most of it isn’t as obvious as violence and overt abuse. It’s subtle misogyny and sexist tropes, a lot of internalised misogyny in women unfortunately, emotional manipulation by men, and controlling/exerting power in the workplace and in personal relationships. Once you recognise it you can’t switch it off. I honestly don’t think it’s possible to have a genuinely wholly equal heterosexual relationship because society is still set up largely for men

I have a lot of issues with that article.

It misses that VAWG is endemic and always has been, globally. It misses that porn is seen by many as huge problem, if it's the internet she's focussed on. She mentions figures around the world, what are the search results for their language/ national search engines like?

On controlling women, it's normal in plenty of societies whether through religion, culture, the law etc etc. And the implication that the increase in VAWG is due to men being radicalised is unlikely, most men who do stuff are not involved in that stuff.

It's a USA piece and talks about rolling out be nice programs for men and boys. That doesn't address the cause though. If you don't address the root causes then it's not going to work.

I mean I could go on :)

OP, you're single but presumably have friends and family in relationships? Have dated in the past? What's their experience that you can see or have been told?

I also assumed this was going to be about all of it. Street harassment, stalking, flashing, intimidating behaviour etc are all over the place.

I don't think you've dodged a bullet really, domestic violence is common but also not something that is so prevalent you are almost certainly going to experience it if you date men. I'm including the controlling stuff as well.

If you're happy being single then that's all you need to know but I wouldn't write off relationships ever because of this. Assuming you're heterosexual. How old are you?

The wirework manchild / entitlement stuff etc stuff is sadly pretty common but that's not what you're talking about i don't think.

I know loads of nice men tbh. I mean you never know how anyone will be in a relationship but still.

Lots of experience. Recognised what was going on. Can't leave because nowhere safe to go. I think it's because of the housing crisis stuff that's why domestic violence and abuse has increased. Women are trapped. Some example from my experience. Council homeless department literally never answering the phone. Call a different departments to explain and they just put me through to the one that never answers. Online application ignored. I've got many more examples. Domestic abuse workers are short staffed. Women end up trapped.

Not violence, but my ex-husband lied to me and cheated on me and the in only relationship I tried after, the man was very manipulative, though not very subtle and I ended the relationships quickly. He stalked me for about a year after, but eventually lost interest. I've been single for several years now (mid-forties) and I think there's a strong likelihood I'll remain single for the rest of my life.

@TedMullins

Everywhere. All the time. Most of it isn’t as obvious as violence and overt abuse. It’s subtle misogyny and sexist tropes, a lot of internalised misogyny in women unfortunately, emotional manipulation by men, and controlling/exerting power in the workplace and in personal relationships. Once you recognise it you can’t switch it off. I honestly don’t think it’s possible to have a genuinely wholly equal heterosexual relationship because society is still set up largely for men

Except I have one. I really do believe it is possible.

Sadly all the time. Women put up with so much shit from men. I’m done with it. I’ve been happily single for a decade, and the thought of being in a relationship makes me shudder.

I think men need women more than women need men, so why are so many women desperate to be in a relationship at all costs?

Economic reasons, desire to have children? But also coupledom is shoved down our throats from toddlerhood.

I talk to my daughters about it a lot. They roll their eyes at me now. But they know a lot more than I ever did. So that is one thing we can do, talk to our children.

I’d be totally up for reordering our society away from ‘happy ever after’.

A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

If only I could persuade more women to believe that, we’d have the power!

To me, it would be so ideal to live with all my friends in a big house. Friendship over anything else. Ive never had kids I do not want them. Sadly all my friends dropped off the face of the earth when they had them. I could care less if I get in one. I had fun in college but it felt like a constant invasion on my solitude to have a relationship. I always broke them off because I got too busy or some shit. I just love to sit and BE. If i lived on a mountain or on a little plot with an orchard and beees and cats and art i would be so happy. I am still young and oof I have to make it happen.

I’ve often thought that when you have kids it would be the perfect time to live in a big house with a load of other women!

You would have support, you could share the chores, the cooking, the childcare, the kids would have great space and facilities, and playmates.

I know similar setups have been tried though, and they’ve never really caught on.

I suppose it would take a lot of money to set up.

@DogsDinner

I’ve often thought that when you have kids it would be the perfect time to live in a big house with a load of other women!

You would have support, you could share the chores, the cooking, the childcare, the kids would have great space and facilities, and playmates.

I know similar setups have been tried though, and they’ve never really caught on.

I suppose it would take a lot of money to set up.

Honestly, for women who have kids, it is a fabulous idea. Parents get so isolated. Unless you have a big family, in those cases relatives chip in to help a lot.

I also noticed how hard it is for my sisters to have friends or do anything else while raising their babies though.

@NiceGerbil

I have a lot of issues with that article.

It misses that VAWG is endemic and always has been, globally. It misses that porn is seen by many as huge problem, if it's the internet she's focussed on. She mentions figures around the world, what are the search results for their language/ national search engines like?

On controlling women, it's normal in plenty of societies whether through religion, culture, the law etc etc. And the implication that the increase in VAWG is due to men being radicalised is unlikely, most men who do stuff are not involved in that stuff.

It's a USA piece and talks about rolling out be nice programs for men and boys. That doesn't address the cause though. If you don't address the root causes then it's not going to work.

I mean I could go on :)

OP, you're single but presumably have friends and family in relationships? Have dated in the past? What's their experience that you can see or have been told?

I also assumed this was going to be about all of it. Street harassment, stalking, flashing, intimidating behaviour etc are all over the place.

I don't think you've dodged a bullet really, domestic violence is common but also not something that is so prevalent you are almost certainly going to experience it if you date men. I'm including the controlling stuff as well.

If you're happy being single then that's all you need to know but I wouldn't write off relationships ever because of this. Assuming you're heterosexual. How old are you?

The wirework manchild / entitlement stuff etc stuff is sadly pretty common but that's not what you're talking about i don't think.

I know loads of nice men tbh. I mean you never know how anyone will be in a relationship but still.

Still those numbers are disturbing and the fact that there are so many articles on google that teach how to manipulate and abuse your partner, is even more disturbing.

Yeah I agree about porn. I think the worst things go hand in hand with porn consumption. What people expect the woman to do because p0rn. Vanilla shaming on tiktok is even a thing now.

Yup I have family and friends in relationships but I have no desire to do that again. I never felt strongly enough or enjoyed it enough, I dont want to tell someone I really want a relationship when I dont.

not an inch away from my nose, an inch into my nose close.

twat.

Everywhere. For me I was in an abusive relationship and when people used to criticise my husband I really struggled to take them seriously because I could see their husbands abusing and manipulating them. Basically I didn't think my abusive relationship was any different to the relationships I saw all my friends having. All my friends think their relationships are great. I think that is very worrying.

I work in housing. It's absolutely everywhere. Actual, horrible violence. Noise complaints that when the people move out, you then see the holes in walls and doors, sometimes much worse. I can't count the number of women I've connected with services. Most don't leave.

In my immediate circles I don't see a ton of that kind of thing. Bad relationships obviously with bad behaviour, and jerks, and a few unfaithful types, but I would draw a line between that and what you are describing.

My father has not always been a good partner, he's been married quite a few times which is a good clue, a lot of that stems from mental illness and addiction.

Now, if I move outside of people I am close to, I see a lot more, but it's more difficult to see what's going on in those relationships as I don't know them well and they are less likely to spill what's going on to me.

@DogsDinner

I’ve often thought that when you have kids it would be the perfect time to live in a big house with a load of other women!

You would have support, you could share the chores, the cooking, the childcare, the kids would have great space and facilities, and playmates.

I know similar setups have been tried though, and they’ve never really caught on.

I suppose it would take a lot of money to set up.

I've seen people try this a lot more than I've seen it work. It's not that easy to parent with another person, even another women with her own kids. I don't think our culture makes us very suited to communal living type arrangements and people often parent in ways that are really dissimilar, even when it seems superficially that they would have a lot in common.

MrsTerryPratchett If you work in housing you must know why lots of us with young children or disabled so can't work and havent been allowed to work can't leave. I feel physically sick thinking about housing departments because so many of them don't care if there's abuse or risk of violence or being killed and some don't even pretend to care. They do everything they can to get rid of you and lie and deliberately confuse you and domestic abuse workers are so busy they can't help as much as you need. I've found it sometimes worse than abuse because it's so upsetting and wears you down and I could give lots of examples but one recent one is applied as homeless, had interview avd sent supporting evidence, and then keep getting put off. They hadn't even accepted the homeless application after two months and kept telling me they'd call the next day and never did so in the end I needed to give up because it made me ill trying to get help and being let down again and again. I wish people who don't believe me and blame women for not leaving tried to apply as homeless to councils and saw how it was like. You can't even get through on the phone ever to some of them. One had me on hold for 40 minutes and then disconnected me and was then just never answered again and kept ringing so no answer machine. I think people should pretend to be a woman looking for help so you can see what I mean. I know lots of people don't care but maybe if some people knew what it was like it may be easier to leave.

I’ve often thought that when you have kids it would be the perfect time to live in a big house with a load of other women!

This would be a nightmare for me. I have high standards and living with flat-mates taught me that yes other women can be free loading and dirty. A house full of other women and their children? No way. I know I’d become the maid cleaning up after them and their children and having to listen to their unsolicited advice on how to raise my children as well as comments about how a little dirt never hurt anyone, and sorry they thought my food was their food but it’s so cheap I shouldn’t be making a fuss and just go to the shops and buy more. No, no, no. Much easier to house train a man than deal with many women who all think they know better than you.

Don't get me wrong @safeornotsafe there's no value judgement. It's really hard to leave the relationship. These are dangerous scary men and the system to help women leave puts them at risk.

I have managed to help one lovely woman leave into a new place without her partner. I'm seeing her soon to catch up. Another we got to a shelter but she did lose her home. I would rehouse her. She has my direct number.

I actually think male homelessness is a feminist issue because very often it's insecurely housed men targeting single mums in social housing for a place to stay. House the men effectively and educate women to keep their housing rights for their family. That way when he behaves criminally housing can get him out or transfer her without ending the tenancy. Sometimes.

I've tried with the police and other places to get help to try to protect women and keep them/get them housed. There isn't the will.

@Dogfan

Everywhere. For me I was in an abusive relationship and when people used to criticise my husband I really struggled to take them seriously because I could see their husbands abusing and manipulating them. Basically I didn't think my abusive relationship was any different to the relationships I saw all my friends having. All my friends think their relationships are great. I think that is very worrying.

Wow, where do you live and what did you see happen to your friends. Did you get bruises and severe injuries? Were you ever hospitalized ?

@PlanDeRaccordement

I’ve often thought that when you have kids it would be the perfect time to live in a big house with a load of other women!

This would be a nightmare for me. I have high standards and living with flat-mates taught me that yes other women can be free loading and dirty. A house full of other women and their children? No way. I know I’d become the maid cleaning up after them and their children and having to listen to their unsolicited advice on how to raise my children as well as comments about how a little dirt never hurt anyone, and sorry they thought my food was their food but it’s so cheap I shouldn’t be making a fuss and just go to the shops and buy more. No, no, no. Much easier to house train a man than deal with many women who all think they know better than you.

I never had this experience, in fact I may be biased because I had good experiences doing it in college. At one point I lived in beautiful loft with 8 girls. Yes it was crazy, but there was always someone to clean something up so nobody thought about it much. There was never a dull moment. The worst thing was the noise and people who came over ngl.

@Parakeetkeet
We are probably both biased by our experiences living with other women as flat mates. Mine was bad, yours was good. I suppose the truth is somewhere in the middle.

The vast majority of men in my life have been amazing. Dad, husband, granda, nothing but respect for me and the other women in our family. University was not a problem, was part of a really nice group of friends, both male and female. I would say don't despair, there are a lot of wonderful and trustworthy men out there.
That being said, I think part of my good experience can be put down to a very privileged life so far. My family was financially secure and unusually healthy. Same for a lot of my friends at uni I think. I don't know if I'm right but I think that privilege is protective to some degree against violence. I also work in a very predominantly female company.
Another thing that maybe helped me not experience much of this personally- socially conservative communities get a bad reputation for women's rights, very often deservedly. But I loved my socially conservative upbringing. I agree with previous posters about how awful prn has been for women, and my personal experience* was that my upbringing actually created a space for women and girls to be protected from an unfair sexual power dynamic.