Roblox, gender identity and safeguarding

[FemaleAndLearning]

A long article from the Guardian not really saying much but seems to lack any idea of safeguarding for the children who identify as trans and for children in general. "Hannah" ordered oestrogen online. There was no discussion about the risks of doing this. It was completely normalised. Also, flippant discussion of using Discord to get around strict chat guidelines within Roblox.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/games/2021/apr/24/in-the-game-i-knew-myself-as-hannah-the-trans-gamers-finding-freedom-on-roblox

@R0wantrees

She took out a silky nightgown and shrugged it on, feeling the instant, giddy rush of something she would later learn to call “gender euphoria”, though it was tempered by fear that someone would walk in.

Its a shame that the journalist did not consider enquiring who taught a child to describe such feelings as "gender euphoria".

I suspect at some point in the future articles such as this will be part of the evidence in Child Protection inquiries, no doubt followed by empty promises of, "lessons learned."

It’s so concerning. As well as the obvious safeguarding issues there’s something disquieting about the tone of the whole article:

"Playing with her long, dark hair, she explains how from that first moment she took every covert opportunity to try on her mother’s clothing, favouring nightdresses and floral skirts."

Aside from the obvious gender stereotypes = female, there's the ‘playing with her long dark hair’ objectification, that description of how Hannah was turned on by putting on a silk nighty (and as you point out no thought as to where this concept of ‘gender euphoria' came from) and the photo placing Hannah in her childhood bedroom which chimes with imagery we've seen elsewhere. Plus no concern about grooming, the journalist is flippant about taking hormones and about the likely extreme surgery Hannah plans. Then there are absolutely no notes of caution about the 'mentoring' that Hannah is now doing for other young people.

@R0wantrees

that kind of lingerie fetishism of course has been well known and described throughout the twentieth century, and used to just be thought of as an erotic cross-dressing fetish that some men enjoyed.

Its a sexual fetish which has been minimised by many men. One which has had often had detrimental impact on women.

Yeah, I do completely agree with you here - sorry that that wasn't clear! I also objected to the tone in the article about Hannah enjoying the feel of the secret tights on her skin etc. It's the exact same way that adult trans women talk about the "girliness" of clothes, lipstick etc. Whereas the actual girls wearing tights at school, one can guarantee, were not spending their time feeling great rushes of euphoria at the sensation of tights on their skin, just going about their everyday business.

I read this yesterday and felt (even more) rage at the G - its relentless promoting and normalising of the trans narrative.

As well as the silky nightgown passage, there's something about 'wore tights under school trousers, enjoying the feel of them on skin' - is the Guardian suggesting that enjoying the feel of your tights on your skin and loving a silky nightie is proof that one is a woman? I'd say this is more like 'strongly suggests a cross-dressing sexual fetish' - astonishing to me that the G should print these lines completely unaware of how it comes across.

Yes, this is male pattern behaviour, not female. It angers me that we are supposed to believe that males are female just because they like silky stuff. How retrograde.

Oh wow, there are huge safeguarding red flags on this.

Just altering a couple of word here should make it explicit:
"In a game you can choose your gender age. Go in as female a child and no one knows you’re biologically male an adult. You can escape real life and have a completely new identity. As soon as I got on the computer, I just knew myself as Hannah.”

And this one (no alterations):
“Online, you can get rid of all the baggage of real life,” she says. “You have no idea about someone’s background, what school they go to, what their face looks like. All you need to know is that they play games, they’re nice and they’re accepting of you.”

People used to literally warn children about strangers on the internet pretending to be their friend. But this is apparently all fine now?

is the Guardian suggesting that enjoying the feel of your tights on your skin and loving a silky nightie is proof that one is a woman? I'd say this is more like 'strongly suggests a cross-dressing sexual fetish' - astonishing to me that the G should print these lines completely unaware of how it comes across.

Absolutely. It's glaringly obvious they're describing a fetish not womanhood.

It's as well to remember this awful case:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MurderoffBreckBednar

From the Wiki link above:

"The Breck Foundation is a charity founded by Lorin LaFave after the tragic loss of her 14-year old son, Breck Bednar, in 2014, through online grooming.

Breck was groomed while enjoying his passions of computing and gaming.
We want to ensure that no child is harmed through grooming and
exploitation while enjoying their time on the internet. Prevention through education is essential.

Our ‘play virtual, live real’ motto reminds everyone to never meet up alone in
a private place with someone they have met only online."
www.breckfoundation.org/

The Breck Principles:

"be aware & believe
Be aware of the real and increasing dangers today’s children may face online. Believe that there are people who use the internet to groom, abuse and exploit young people.

report it
Report any concerns immediately to school, police, Childline, NSPCC or CEOP. Even small pieces of information when put together can make up the bigger picture of what may be happening to a child online.

educate &
empower
Educate others on the signs of grooming and exploitation. Be empowered to act on concerns.

communicate
Encourage and support young people to communicate concerns about themselves or how their peers are behaving online. Support others by sharing these principles within your community.

know the signs
& keep safe
Know the signs of grooming and exploitation. Keeping safe online must be everyone’s priority!"
www.breckfoundation.org/the-breck-principles

I remember the case of Breck Brednar as he would have been the same age as my son. Its such an unbearably awful story, it terrifies me to think there are people out there like that, and it seems the platform creators don't do nearly as much as they should do to protect their young users.

I have no doubt that it will happen again, these gaming forums are a playground for predators.

From the article linked previously

(extract)
"It was on Discord where Luke met John, a hyper-feminine gay man working as what he calls a “passing coach.” John (a pseudonym, like most of the other names I am using) teaches young males how to “pass” as a member of the other sex—how they should dress and style themselves, how they can feminize their voices—a service that John monetizes. According to Luke, John could have been a world-renowned artist, but bravely chose to give that up. Natalie still can’t believe her son fell for what she regards as a scam.

Naturally, John immediately affirmed Luke’s hatred of his own testicles, further legitimizing his claims of dysphoria. John told Luke all about voice modification, and Luke began to learn about the anatomy of the vocal tract in detail, eager to please his new mentor. John even suggested that Luke could work as John’s assistant, applying his newfound knowledge to broaden John’s online services. (continues)

Natalie wants to believe that John’s relationship with her son is merely unwholesome and manipulative, not sexual; but it’s impossible to say.

Natalie confiscated Luke’s phone, but John wasn’t going to let that stop him. He started phishing for contact details for Luke’s relatives, trying to find ways to get around his parents’ restrictions. And Luke soon got back online himself, using the notebook computer his school had given him. Natalie eventually found that her son was using second-hand phones in the house, getting them from other kids and hiding them under his bed. These got him back onto Discord, and back into John’s orbit. Short of moving to a log cabin with no electricity, Natalie found, there was almost no way to keep her son safe. And all this was before COVID lockdowns caused Luke’s emotional state to deteriorate and his threats of self-harm to become more frequent." (continues)

But that plan, too, was a lie—or at least, as Natalie puts it, “a stepping stone” to where Luke would eventually end up: he moved in with John, in a strange new city, hundreds of miles away. It turned out that John lives with a number of other men whom Natalie doesn’t know much about. Firmly in John’s thrall, Luke is now a live-in worker, writing and delivering “courses” on John’s behalf. How much—or indeed whether—he gets paid, Natalie doesn’t know. Luke puts great effort into his work. And John publicly describes him on Discord as his “slave.” (continues)
quillette.com/2021/04/21/when-sons-become-daughters-part-iv-parents-of-transitioning-boys-speak-out-on-their-own-suffering/

"The Breck Foundation is a charity founded by Lorin LaFave after the tragic loss of her 14-year old son, Breck Bednar, in 2014, through online grooming.

I think Lorin did a MN guest post a couple of years ago. Heartbreaking.

I think people tend to think of it as more girls being vulnerable and targeted by older men, but these boys and young men are vulnerable online too.

You and I can laugh about it and realise how ridiculous it is that bots or avatars have any bearing on our 'real selves' but pre teenage kids don't distinguish between fantasy and reality in the same way.

YY.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I think people tend to think of it as more girls being vulnerable and targeted by older men, but these boys and young men are vulnerable online too.

The article is effectively describing the process by which predators can also gain access to young people - the way that being online facilitates pretending to be something you are not. But there is no analysis of this at all.

Yes, it's quite striking.

I wondered what happened after the lingerie episode.

The usual narrative is that parent/authority figure finds out, shames the child and forces their 'true identity' further underground. That bit was missing here. Why? Is it possible the family has been supportive throughout?

The article overall is trying to tell us it's perfectly safe and healthy to trust strangers online. Usually this is underpinned by 'because your parents won't understand and aren't on your side' - and this article shows that's not true. Even the interviewee feels regret that they didn't ask their family for support earlier.

I wondered what happened after the lingerie episode.

It escalated.

(extract)
"she explains how from that first moment she took every covert opportunity to try on her mother’s clothing, favouring nightdresses and floral skirts. At secondary school, she would wear tights under her school trousers, enjoying how they felt against her skin. In PE, she wore baggy trousers to hide the fact that she had shaved her legs. She experimented with her mother’s makeup, and when she got her first debit card, secretly ordered women’s clothes online." (continues)

Yes, sorry, I meant - what was the mother's reaction when she 'returned home and caught Hannah in the act'?

Parental anger/disgust/punishment is often given as a reason for children to turn to strangers for support. I thought it was interesting that the details were omitted here. We are meant to assume that something bad happened but it's not clear that it did.

Also - because I realise that I've derailed a bit there - can you imagine an article where Catholic priests said that they were using online gaming to make contact with young children on the internet? Because once they're interested in gaming you can talk about the wider philosophical problems of life and faith?

Accompanied by a picture of a child surrounded by icons of the Virgin Mary and rosary beads? Would that be ok?

As noted above, if you change the specifics it's clear how unacceptable it all is.

Whereas the actual girls wearing tights at school, one can guarantee, were not spending their time feeling great rushes of euphoria at the sensation of tights on their skin, just going about their everyday business.

Exactly, my DD was more likely to think, fuck these tights are itchy, and I've got another hole in them, why can't I just wear my jeans? This is the authentic female experience.

...her mother’s wardrobe in their Devon home, full of clothes she longed to try on, even though this was forbidden.

But who was doing the forbidding? From everything in the article, her family has been supportive all along.

On another note, there was a link to this podcast:
'I just want to see the person I always saw in my head': the story of a face – podcast about a trans person.
Yeah, me too.

The article has been archived;
archive.fo/aV4LC

Bump. This article deserves to be read more widely and the implications for safeguarding considered carefully, especially given cases like Breck Bednar's highlighted by PPs.

Thanks for sharing, OP. I read this last night and felt quite queasy.

Another article on Roblox: www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/warning-after-strangers-contact-north-east-children-online-to-ask-for-addresses2/

Interestingly, the thread started on AIUB has just turned into a fest of "you bad parents and you need to monitor your kids properly"! I think the subtleties of this poor journalism is completely missed and the trans issue is barely mentioned even though that us what the article is about.