Assigned at birth

[HDDD]

I have a real issue with this phrase. It seems to have crept into common parlance. I've just read it in a news report on SKY. I've seen it in a questionnaire I had to fill in for my local authority. It was in the charity commission doc about LGBA.
It's blatantly not true. Sex is observed, not assigned. I get that some people will 'identify' as different to their sex as observed at birth. I feel the need to 1. collect instances of use of the phrase 2. challenge use of the phrase. Anyone with me?

Initially my reaction was that, given the extent to which language is currently being twisted and perverted, the subtitution of 'assigned' for 'observed' is relatively trivial. But it isn't.
Observed is morally neutral: the results of an observation originate in the data observed, not in the observer (in an ideal world).
Assigned is not neutral: the assigner has agency and imposes a definition/label/quality upon the object.
Observed = what something is
Assigned = what an agent deems something to be.
Assignment is something 'done unto' one and thus is another (if small) support for victimhood narratives/appropriation

I'm sure that could have been better expressed, but I hope it makes sense.

I thought it was well put, Three.

It's terminology adopted from people with DSDs born with ambiguous genitalia, who literally were assigned a sex in days gone by. Sometimes they were subjected to surgery to make their genitalia more typical of their assigned sex. (Which is a human rights issue adults with DSDs are fighting against.)

However, when puberty hit, then sometimes it would become apparent that the person making the decision had got it wrong. It's an awful situation.

These days however, at least in the developed world, that shouldn't happen, because such a baby would have a blood sample karyotyped.

Yep it’s a bullshit term designed to gaslight from in the womb - when detached from intersex babies - it is meaningless. I will not use this language of wank.

Thank you, PurgatoryOfPotholes.

I was avoiding the DSD question, but yes, where errors are made, it is a dreadful situation.

Assigned is what happens to Hogwarts students by the Sorting Hat.
Perhaps this JKR association might persuade them to stop using it

Yes!!! Excellent thought, Whippet.

You might be interested in this Freedom if Information request (as yet unanswered:

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/information_on_assigning_sex_at#outgoing-1131609

The stupid thing about this is that whatever nonsense you might believe about 'gender' and what it means, it is your biological sex that is observed at birth,not your 'gender'. So even if you believe that your 'gender' doesn't match with the sex stated on your birth certificate, you can't claim that your birth sex was merely 'assigned' rather than accurately observed, because unlike 'gender' it's a biological fact, which cannot be changed however you might choose to identify!

I wonder if all this really helps trans people in the long run. What if trans people were encouraged to say "I was born male but prefer to live as if I were female. I appreciate it when people treat me as if I were female."?

It seems instead there's an attempt to turn the whole world into a place where things are other than they are but this will always be imperfect and so the trans person will always be hurt when the inevitable reminders come in.

@HPFA

I wonder if all this really helps trans people in the long run. What if trans people were encouraged to say "I was born male but prefer to live as if I were female. I appreciate it when people treat me as if I were female."?

It seems instead there's an attempt to turn the whole world into a place where things are other than they are but this will always be imperfect and so the trans person will always be hurt when the inevitable reminders come in.

Yes I agree. And it encourages unattractive and unpleasant “me, me, me” type behaviours.

I may be flamed for this, but I am actually starting to wonder whether some of those who insist on redefining words have not been told “no” enough as children.

And we all know that what’s really frightening, is when men do not understand the word “no”.

Yup - complain, in writing of course. The same linguistic nonsense was on a health survey I completed recently, so I fired off several letters of complaint.
But I wish that I'd thought of @Whippet's point. Then I could have added that Assigned is what the Sorting Hat does

If sex really were "assigned at birth" rather than determined at the moment of conception, how are "gender" reveal parties even possible? What is happening when people are told m or f at 20 week scans?

And why oh why did Henry VIII not just "assign" Elizabeth male at birth and live happily ever after?

Something - or the absence of something - must have stopped him... 🤔

Well the whole thing in the Sky piece sticks in the craw that Maya Forstater "believes" sex is immutable rather than "knows".

Sex is not 'assigned at birth' for fucks sake. It is 'decided' at conception, and every single cell in a growing foetus contains the information of what sex that human is. Same for all animals.

'Assigned at birth' makes it sound like the doctors/midwives have a choice to make and just plump for one or the other.

@NewlyGranny

If sex really were "assigned at birth" rather than determined at the moment of conception, how are "gender" reveal parties even possible? What is happening when people are told m or f at 20 week scans?

And why oh why did Henry VIII not just "assign" Elizabeth male at birth and live happily ever after?

Something - or the absence of something - must have stopped him... 🤔

Well, Shakespeare clearly reckoned she identified half her organs as male: “I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a king of England too".

The Endocrine Society produced this paper recently. I imagine they were a little surprised that it was necessary to point out the bloomin obvious but nevertheless this is a very interesting summary of how sex is determined at conception and people are 'built'.

Sex is an important biological variable that must be considered in the design and analysis of human and animal research. The terms sex and gender should not be used interchangeably. Sex is dichotomous, with sex determination in the fertilized zygote stemming from unequal expression of sex chromosomal genes.

Any medical organisation that uses such unscientific language as 'assigned at birth' needs to read this and sort themselves out pronto.

I seem to remember MP Dawn Butler having the opinion that babies were born as a blank slate and had their sex allocated post birth (I can't remember exactly how crazy the theory was but it was something like that)

academic.oup.com/edrv/advance-article/doi/10.1210/endrev/bnaa034/6159361

For anyone (like me) who had not seen the Nursing and Midwifery Council response to the Women and Equalities
Committee’s inquiry into Reform of the Gender Recognition Act
www.nmc.org.uk/globalassets/sitedocuments/consultations/2021/nmc-submission-to-women-and-equalities-committee-inquiry-into-reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act.pdf
Good grief.

It's just the term we use for the announcement the midwife makes about the child's sex. They go by what the genitals look like, and that a pretty good guide that works for the majority of cases, but just occasionally, they are wrong.

You honestly don't have to have a tantrum about every single word that trans people use.

It's factually wrong, inaccurate and binding everyone into a political and quasi religious belief. Offensive to enforce on all as if holding this belief is required. No. Not genuflecting at that altar.

And this is language appropriated from people with DSD, so offensive on both fronts.

As for 'tantrums' .... if you choose to step on my toes, I'm going to ask you to get off. Right now. Neither reasonable nor rational to expect me to do otherwise.

@MichelleofzeResistance

It's factually wrong, inaccurate and binding everyone into a political and quasi religious belief. Offensive to enforce on all as if holding this belief is required. No. Not genuflecting at that altar.

And this is language appropriated from people with DSD, so offensive on both fronts.

And yet, despite the fact that we do it, everyone's fine.

The heart breaking stories of intersex kids who were tidied up by surgeons who made the wrong call
are hopefully a thing of the past
now that chromosome testing is cheap and quick.

ALL babies are observed
just some may need a test to make sure the observation is correct

@MichelleofzeResistance

As for 'tantrums' .... if you choose to step on my toes, I'm going to ask you to get off. Right now. Neither reasonable nor rational to expect me to do otherwise.

You mean like TRAs do?

@ListeningQuietly

The heart breaking stories of intersex kids who were tidied up by surgeons who made the wrong call are hopefully a thing of the past now that chromosome testing is cheap and quick.

ALL babies are observed
just some may need a test to make sure the observation is correct

Forcing surgery on babies and children with DSDs is a horrendous practice. One of the reasons it is horrendous is that it doesn't respect the innate gender identity of the children, and that is one of the reasons that gender dysphoria affects 8.5 - 20% of people with DSDs.

Shizuku, observing a newborn baby’s genitals and announcing what you have seen is NOT “assigning” a sex. The baby IS that sex, and nobody can “assign” it as anything else.
If it grows up preferring the gender stereotypes of the opposite sex, it can say so when it reaches adulthood, and set out on a lifetime of medication, cosmetic surgery or whatever else it chooses. But its sex remains unchanged.